The Bar Towel

tcraigwright · Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 2

Hey Folks,

I like C'est what. The have a reasonable selection of tap ale and a good atmosphere. The service is spotty, but that seems to be the standard for good beer venues in this city. But there are two reasons that i will not go back again.

The first happened this friday. a group of us were on our way down to C'est what for pints of good beer. two friends arrived first and found a table for two. They asked if they could be put on a list for a larger table as we had a group of 8 arriving.

"No problem!"

i arrived with a friend to find no place to sit. We pushed two tall tables together in the corner and made due.

We tried to buy pints, but as this was the cask evening, this proved difficult. The one bar wasn't providing the beer we wanted. we were told to go to another bar. We walked to that bar and were told that we could only recieve 6 ounce tasters, but we could get pints at the other bar. after going back and fourth four times, we finally were able to get pints, and the managers admission that no one thought people would be interested in pints.

the hostes came over to tell us that after our extended wait we could now be moved to another table which would seat our party of 4 plus four who had just called top indicate that they were almost there. We were in the middle of paying our bill in the bar so we could move to another table in the bar when the manager (who earlier indicated that no one in the place thought people would order pints) told us that he couldn't give us this table. because we were only four people.

We provided our assurance that ther were in fact four people who would be joining us and they were less than 5 minutes away. He told us that he was going to give our table away and we could go back on the waitlist and we would recieve a table for 8 only if 8 people were there, and one came available.

By the time we were able to settle up on our bill, we had 8 people, and we all left to continue our evening elsewhere.

This is not the first experience i have had like this at C'est What, but it is the last.

The second reason i will not go back again, is there are other venues in this city that have as good or better selections, who do not treat their customers like this. There are also places that have a greater interest in their beer, and i choose to support them. Volo, BB and Bow and Arrow will get my business.

Cheers,

Craig Wright

Jon Walker · Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject:

While I agree that C'est What staff can often give poor customer service and a bad attitude...man did you pick the wrong night to expect special treatment! If I was managing a bar during a packed SPECIAL EVENT and had people waiting in line to be seated I'd not want to give up a table of 8 to only 4 people. Folks were no doubt waiting for that table who were all there...not in a car en route. I dare say you'd have exactly the same experience if you tried the same thing at a special event held by Volo, Bow and Arrow or Beer Bistro. You have to look after customers who are there not folks who aren't. If the tables were turned (excuse the pun) and you and three friends had been waiting for a table for a half hour and you saw four people sitting at a table for eight but you couldn't sit there because they were saving it for folks who hadn't arrived yet...it'd piss you off wouldn't it?

Also, the event being held that night is all about sampling. That one night pints are not the focus so...it sucks that you got the run around but I think it's totally understandable under the circumstances.

GregClow · Joined: 10 Aug 2001 Posts: 2930 Location: Parkdale

I'm in full agreement with Jon here. It's pretty well known that the Craft Beer festival nights at C'est What are a complete madhouse, and trying to hold seats for a large party & easily get full pints during one of them is simply a bad idea. Complaints that have been leveled against C'est What in the past may be valid, but I doubt you'll get much sympathy for this particular situation.

glocalized · Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 1

I feel a need to weigh in on this one because I think my friend Craig may not have fully painted the picture of Friday night...

Let me start by saying that special treatment was not what we were looking for that evening. Just honest folk looking for a beer and preferably a seat at some point to celebrate a milestone in one of our friend's life.

What would have perhaps cleared up the entire problem is if they had declared right off the start that this night was a special event and all normal service would be altered. I would have been ok with that. "Sorry, we're not serving pints tonight". Ok, no problem. But instead, we went through THREE HOURS of run-arounds. Yes, you can have this, no you can't have this. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If your establishment wants maximum revenue from both pints and samplers, then plan a way for both to happen. Or don't serve pints.

Also, the "seat for 8" that Craig was speaking of was really a couch for 3/4 that you add chairs around. I would have been happy to start with just the couch and then added chairs as they became available. When the manager turned us down in the end, shortly after the hostess had come by to say we could come over and sit down at the couch, we were a party of 5. This was one more than the party of four already sitting at an identical couch.

The most unfortunate thing is this is not at all the first time this kind of thing has happened at CW. Good food, good selection of Ontario beer... but if I have to constantly bargain with the staff to seek decent refuge in their bar any night of the week, then its not the place for me. I don't need stress to be apart of my evening when all I'm trying to do is relax.

For those who haven't had this experience here, I wish them well because CW has a lot to offer. But for this particular pub goer, its time to bid CW adieu.

Andrew Brooks

Jon Walker · Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:37 am Post subject:

It sucks that you and your party had a bad time. The place has a less than stellar reputation for service when they're not having a major event. Most of us that go there, either frequently or infrequently, tend to look past that due to the very decent beer selection. Some people can't get past the poor service and won't go there PERIOD. However, I'm prepared to cut them a lot of slack on that particular night...it's always a total madhouse and sitting any large group, like a party of eight, is nearly impossible ESPECIALLY if the whole party isn't present. It just sounds to me like you both had expectations of regular service on a night that is anything but regular.

I'm surprised that C'est What didn't have any kind of sign up at the door mentioning the event taking place that night. If they didn't then in future they should. For future reference you might want to check here at Bartowel for upcoming events at the various beer pubs around town. It's best not to plan an evening out at a place that's having a special event if the event is not what you want to be attending.

tcraigwright · Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 2

Hey Guys,

Although it was a special night, this experience is certainly not unique to this evening. This was the first time i have been back to C'est What in a long time due to a previous experience which took place on an evening no more special other than it was a Saturday. This experience just confirmed my impressions. I, nor any of my party from that evening will partake in C'est Whats abysmal service again. If i want to be treated poorly, there are hundreds of people who would jump at the chance, and i dare say i wouldn't have to pay to have them do it. In fact when asked for suggestions on a good beer place in Toronto, this establishment will slip my mind from this point on.

Those of you who enjoy the atmosphere, or beer selection, by all means continue you patronage. After a few pints in you wont even notice the acerbic attitudes, poor service, or draconian managment tactics.

Finally, for the record, i don't think expecting a pint in a bar regardless of how poorly managed constitutes "special treatment"

Jon Walker

Blankboy · Joined: 04 Sep 2002 Posts: 301 Location: Toronto

Welcome to tcraigwright and glocalized to BarTowel and welcome to both of you as well to the "I'll-Never-Set-Foot-In-C'Est-What-Ever-Again" club, I'm a proud member.
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"Everything's better with monkeys!"

midlife crisis · Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 665 Location: Toronto

I just have to jump in here to say I had no trouble ordering and getting a pint on Festival night at C'est What, and I noticed that a bunch of others near me at the bar (station #5, 7:00 p.m.) were also drinking pints. So I can see why Craig and his group might have been upset, if it was evident that many others had full pints. Otherwise I do think you have to cut them a bit of slack on a very busy festival night.

Blankboy · Joined: 04 Sep 2002 Posts: 301 Location: Toronto

You're all missing the point. They are not saying they won't go back just because they couldn't get pints or tables on Saturday night, they are saying Saturday was just the straw that broke the camel's back:

"This is not the first experience i have had like this at C'est What, but it is the last."

"The most unfortunate thing is this is not at all the first time this kind of thing has happened at CW."

"Although it was a special night, this experience is certainly not unique to this evening."

The service is always shit there wether it's a special event or not. And having a special event is never an excuse to treat your customers like crap. It's like it's the Canadian way to take abuse and smile in return. Why always the excuses? "They treated me badly cause it was busy". "The manager yelled at me cause he's just a surly guy". "The bartender cut me cause he's a tough guy". It boggles my mind. If they can't treat you with respect, class and kindness then fuck them, I'll never go back. I've found places to go that do treat me that way and they will continue getting my money over the places that have good beer but go out of their way to make me feel unwelcome.
_________________
"Everything's better with monkeys!"

Steve-E · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 51

I'm sorry to hear so many of you have had bad experiences at CW, but I have NEVER had a bad experience there. I've been there with large groups and just a couple people and not had any problems. Based on whats been written recently and in the past, they are indeed bad experiences, I won't argue with that. However, not everyone has had a horrible time there.

Andicus · Joined: 08 Feb 2002 Posts: 606 Location: St. Catharines

I'm going to side with Craig and Andrew here... If others are drinking pints, why is it too difficult for them to, as well? This place has no trouble pouring pints 363 (?) days a year, but because they're pouring samples, they've suddenly forgotten how to pour a pint, or the task has become too complex? They're a pub, for crying out loud. Were they still serving food? The seating is also inexcusable. Initially I could understand that there would be a reluctance to seat 4 at an 8 person table, but given the added information, it's just too reminiscent of previous posts here about the lack of quality service and hassles people face trying to do something as simple as having a drink at CW.

old faithful · Joined: 10 Oct 2003 Posts: 986

I had no difficulty getting a pint of Taps wine cask-aged lager. The server apologised for the delay to give me the bill until he could get the beer onto the cash register system. I wonder if those not given pints were for beers not in their computer system. Others have stated here having pints of some of the beers being tasted that night. It seems people have had different experiences there but I've always liked it...

I was thinking of dropping by later today to see if any of the drafts from the weekend are still there, e.g. Manchester Bitter.

Gary

BeerMonger · Joined: 05 May 2005 Posts: 189

From the chowhound thread...evidently the problems described are not new at C'est What...

Very Disapointed with C'est What
I just have to get this off my chest! I held a wedding shower party for a person at work and decided to go to C'est What with a large group of women to have drinks, finger foods and dinner. It was a huge disappointment and mistake.

They refused to seat our group at tables, at first saying it was because we weren't having food, and then that we were too large a group to seat. Huh?!? They suggested sitting at the bar, but there were maybe five seats scattered along the length of the bar and we were a group of at least twenty people.

So we were crammed in to a small fireplace seating nook with another unrelated group. When the overflow of our party stood around the outside of the seating pit we were told to move as we were blocking non existent diner's from the empty tables. The manager suggested in a very hostile tone that we move over to sit with the other unrelated group, and when I mentioned that we weren't able to do that he basically said "I don't care what you do, just get out of here".

As a group of twenty or so people out to celebrate a shower, we were all prepared to hang out for a while, have a few drinks, have munchies and then dinner. Instead we all left with a very poor impression, and no intention of ever going back. Between the surly manager, the poor location and food and the unhelpful staff I will never go back or recommend it to anyone.

Moggie

posted by moggiemac on May 04, 2005

17 replies so far

on May 04, 2005 Pebbles replied

I've had the same experience whilst going with a group of people tp C'est What.

The service is generally bad whether you go by yourself or with a group. Plus the food really isn't anything especial.

The only reason I go is for the choice of beers, otherwise I would not bother.

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on May 06, 2005 LovesToEat replied to Pebbles

That's too bad...I like C'est What. I did have a group dinner of 8 people for my b-day and then last year we went there in a group of 12 for after dinner drinks. No problems there. But I will be cautious in the future. Thanks for the heads up.

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on May 06, 2005 emq replied to LovesToEat

I would recommend going to the Bier Market on Esplanade next time..the service is good(not great) the beer selection is better than C'est What and the food is MUCH<MUCH BETTER !!!!

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on May 04, 2005 Craig replied

Not that this excuses the rudeness of the manager and staff, or the poor food, but did you happen to make a reservation first, or at least let them know you would be coming? 20 people is a fairly large party to show up unexpectedly, and I can understand that they might have some difficulty handling it in a pinch.

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on May 04, 2005 Pebbles replied to Craig

They don't seem to like groups - I have tried to make reservations before for groups but they won't take reservations.

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on May 04, 2005 cliche replied to Pebbles

When C'est what did renovations they kept a few of their old staff who had the attitude then 'you'll get it when you get it', I'm too cool for school, don't look at me as a cliche I'm an artist. That made it cool when it was a grunge hole. The renovations are like giving Courtney Love a makeover.

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on May 04, 2005 Maureen replied

I have to say I'm not surprised.
I went a few times to this spot, prepared to like it. I really like the physical space.
I found the staff unfrienly and unaccommodating and haven't returned in months.
It's in my neighbourhood, so I could have been a good customer.

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on May 04, 2005 Saucy Jack replied

Amen ! We've had the same experience, but because it's close we keep going back for another try...never gets better. I agree with the comments, especially regarding the surly, couldn't-care-less, staff. The "too cool for school" comment was bang on. If you want a pub in the area I suggest the Flatiron and Firkin. The staff is always very friendly and warm.

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on May 04, 2005 Maureen replied to Saucy Jack

Jason George, just east of Jarvis on Front is also a nice spot.

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on May 04, 2005 Jon replied to Saucy Jack

I like the Flatiron but find that they get overwhelmed on nice days with the patio especially at lunch. The staff is really freindly.

The Hot House Cafe across the street is also a freindly place but not a great decor for a cocktail party.

Laide is great for showers and birthdays. It is small but they block of areas for groups so everyone is together.

Link: http://laide.ca/

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on May 05, 2005 alsiem replied

Hillarious,

Down to a tee this was the experience I had. Twenty people, 9 pm or so. They gave us a huge hassle about standing around tables even though the people at the tables were with the group. Everyone left with a bad taste, I guess $600 bar tabs aren't welcome.

Many of the people that work there are nice but there are few that are total jerks.

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on May 05, 2005 gushiry replied

I have to offer the lone voice of dissent...I frequent CW on a weekly basis and have always found the bar service to be satisfactory, if not exemplarily. However, if the service really was as poor as you claim, they might start losing clientile to the other brewpub in Toronto that carries 30+ Canadian craft beers on tap.

Oh wait.

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on May 05, 2005 Will replied to gushiry

Just because they are they offer a large unique selection does not give them the right to treat customers poorly. I would rather drink an ordinary beer in a friendly environment then a great beer in a place where they treat me like poop.

The only time I was at CW was with another couple and we were 3 of maybe 8 people in the bar area. The bartender and waiter spent most of thier time chatting with each other or smoking in the smoking room we had to keep waving them down to get drinks and they even screwed up our food order... pretty hard when we were the only ones eating in the entire place! I also remember the food as being quite unremarkable...

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on May 06, 2005 midlife replied

Did it ever occur to you to make a reservation? I have never had a problem at C'est What.

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on May 14, 2005 gotobe replied

C'est What has always disappointed me. I haven't gone there in a few months. I'm not a fan of big corporate restaurants but the Esplanade Bier Market in the area is much better and less geeky. C'est What has an attitude, and I can't say why. The food is not that good and the service is not at all up to par with other establishments in the area. I used to frequent C'est What quite a bit about two years ago. I will never go back again.

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on May 17, 2005 Tron replied

I too had a bad experience at C'est What, the bartenders were rude, and the food has lost it's appeal. There are other places around town with interesting micro-brews and way better service!
eg. Bow and Arrow, Local 4, etc.

JerCraigs · Joined: 25 May 2003 Posts: 1859 Location: North York

I find it strange that so many people are trying to take groups of 20 people... is this really that common? I actually really hate going out in groups that big because you end up not talking to anyone or its just awkward and food tends to take forever no matter where you are.