The Bar Towel

atomeyes wrote: it doesn't open the market up to the huge # of craft breweries in the states and still makes keg imports incredibly expensive (to the consumer)

Right, but it's a start. It's also fair to assume that prices will be better under this new model as compared to an agent going through TBS and paying listing fees.

cratez wrote:

atomeyes wrote: it doesn't open the market up to the huge # of craft breweries in the states and still makes keg imports incredibly expensive (to the consumer)

Right, but it's a start. It's also fair to assume that prices will be better under this new model as compared to an agent going through TBS and paying listing fees.

ah yes, the old "it's a start" line we use in Ontario.
wake me up when we finish.

atomeyes wrote:ah yes, the old "it's a start" line we use in Ontario.
wake me up when we finish.

I've said it before, I do not believe Ontario's system will truly open up in my lifetime. So that wake up is not going to happen anytime soon.

atomeyes wrote: ah yes, the old "it's a start" line we use in Ontario. wake me up when we finish.

I'm not defending our restricted market. I'd love to see things opened up - blown up, actually - as much as the next beer geek. But there's no arguing that incremental change to keg imports and distribution is better than nothing. And, again, one can only assume that Craft and others will take advantage of these new opportunities. If we finally start getting some decent U.S. and European taps here, and you want to stay home because Ontario isn't and never will be Oregon, that's fine with me. More beer for the rest of us.

cratez wrote:

atomeyes wrote: ah yes, the old "it's a start" line we use in Ontario. wake me up when we finish.

I'm not defending our restricted market. I'd love to see things opened up - blown up, actually - as much as the next beer geek. But there's no arguing that incremental change to keg imports and distribution is better than nothing. And, again, one can only assume that Craft and others will take advantage of these new opportunities. If we finally start getting some decent U.S. and European taps here, and you want to stay home because Ontario isn't and never will be Oregon, that's fine with me. More beer for the rest of us.

i think we have a difference of opinion as far as what will happen.
do you really think good US micro will now come up here on the regular AND to a chain like Craft because of this 19 L keg rule? is this how business is done? no.
the only real benefit i see is for guys like Volo/Keep6. we'll get some good stuff in for Cask Days and a Jester King tap takeover. i don't think Craft, the chain, will be bringing in 19 L kegs of Driftwood because their cred and our palates demand it.

having worked at a Belgian brewery, i can assure you that these european beer that you dream of will not be making their way over here. Most Belgian breweries have zero desire to work with Ontario and our insane laws. I just sent a message to a west Flanders brewmaster about the changes and, honestly, when Spain, Sweden and the US are just blindly taking whatever he has, there is no reason to send 19 L kegs (not profitable) over to Ontario. sure, you'll see Jean send some Cantillon to the Moranas on occasion, and, as Cantillon's production increases next year, we may get more coming our way, but i think you're failing to see or grasp the big picture.

no one's asking Ontario to be Oregon (and the fact you chose Oregon makes me think that you're really missing the point of this argument). we should be BC or Alberta, at the very least. Just wait until Tilquin hits the western Canadian shelves this fall. maybe you'll comprehend how no one wants to or will want to do business with us because of our laws.

Change is good.
Bring it on...as slow as it may be. The slower things change to what we really want, the most bitchy comments people can post to BT, so everyone should be happy!

We can either be realistic about what change might happen, or we can throw our hands up in the air and be nihilistic about it. I don't think any beer geek in Ontario will be an apologist about our shitty system, but maybe there's hope. I probably would have been a dismissive a-hole 10 years ago if someone would have predicted the number of breweries, variety and even quality that Ontario currently has right now (not saying it's amazing relative to good US markets, but compared to what we had). Who knows what might happen in another 10, even with slow and steady changes.

In terms of comparing ourselves to AB and BC. I'll take the bottle shops out West in a second and the draught here, believe it or not. Although there are occasionally great US or European offering on tap in BC and AB, most imported draught is still core brand plonk. For local provincial draught, I think Ontario, BC and the selection in better respected beer bars are pretty equal. Alberta, no so much. And I say that as transplanted Albertan.

I am older so perhaps I take a longer view. If you compare things to 1983 (atrocious), 1993 (terrible, with three or four exceptions) or 2003 (barely good if you planned carefully), it is a very pleasant time to be a beer drinker in Toronto. Not the nirvana of central London, Prague, Munich, Brussels or the more enlightened pockets of the U.S., but still very good.

midlife crisis wrote:I am older so perhaps I take a longer view. If you compare things to 1983 (atrocious), 1993 (terrible, with three or four exceptions) or 2003 (barely good if you planned carefully), it is a very pleasant time to be a beer drinker in Toronto. Not the nirvana of central London, Prague, Munich, Brussels or the more enlightened pockets of the U.S., but still very good.

You're 100% right Midlife. I can remember 1993 when I first started getting into beer and it was pretty slim pickins.

I would say, however, that what's changed is the drive of beer lovers to make and make available better beer, and consumers desiring better beer and responding accordingly. The "system" itself, hasn't changed as significantly - barely at all IMO in the past few decades.

You can see from what has happened in BC and Alberta (where in a tiny mountain town in BC you can find a bar with all local, OR and WA beers on tap), and where locals continue to thrive, that systematic changes along with the progressive tastes of consumers can make even more significant of a difference.

I'm not NEARLY as old as MLC (haha) but it's way better than it was, and the market has proven itself as quickly as good stuff has appeared to STICK IT TO THE MAN!!

Just to make it perfectly clear: this new keg policy with the LCBO applies only to one-way, disposable 18L kegs. I don't know a single brewery in the world that uses those. Wineries, sure. But breweries? Does anyone on here know of one?

I don't know what size or type of keg any brewery uses. Are these small recyclable kegs the plastic ones that sometimes explode? I think a worker at Redhook was killed by one years ago.

I believe this is opening up to the public next week (if not sooner). I got a media invite for Tuesday after work.

The media people say it's got 160 unique draughts, with a claim of Ontario's largest selection.

Going through their twitter feed, it looks like Nov. 29th is the opening.

Sorry, looks like doors open to the public on the 30th. 29th is a ticketed deal.