In the case of Keith's, I guess you can't argue with success. Labatt/Oland/Imbev have sold the sizzle on this baby(there is no steak here) and have created a phenomenon. Most Keith's drinkers would be drinking Blue or Canadian, even Coors Light or Bud, but the "cachet" of Keith's makes them feel like they are on the leading edge when it comes to beer. What marketing! As much as I do not like the flavour, colour, aroma and name (IPA), if I sold 1% as much of my beer as they do Keith's, I could retire.
On another note, I recently saw Labatt 50 along side the Stella and Leffe taps on one of those fancy ImBev towers( the one with the "glass bidet"). It seems almost insulting( to 50) that an old time tavern beer like 50 would be served that way. Spray the glass, no way! Dirty 8 ounce "hour-glass" shaped glasses are proper here. Man, the mind boggles at what the public will be lead to believe and accept.
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Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
Price of a Pint
It was 3 springs ago in Paris for me (2002) and the Franc was still used. (I had Boef Bourgougne and house wine for lunch, at maybe 14 dollars or 70 Francs - there was also a 10 dollar 50f menu.)PRMason wrote:I was there (Paris) a year ago this month and found the prices to be really steep. I have been there several times, but this time it really shocked me. In any café in the city, you get a Croque Monsieur ( basically a grilled cheese with ham) a tiny bit of salad and a 25cl "biere de café" (usually Kronenbourg) and it will set you back at least the equivalent of $20.00. I agree that you can do much better going to the Monoprix and getting some cheese, a decent bottle of red and a baguette at a fine boulangerie, but the same can be said about Ontario (well, except for the price of the wine). The bar prices are outrageous.
The Euro is such a comparatively large monetary unit, it has for example doubled prices of many goods in towns where my Bavarian relatives are trying to live out their pensions. Coincidentally a Euro was worth nearly two Deutsche Marks (they bitterly joke it's 'one for one!') But the effect of converting currency has driven many businesses to seek incommensurate money for goods. And it doesn't matter the public has called their transparent bluff!
Italy wasn't too bad last year but I can imagine it was cheaper before the Teuro took over (I mean Euro - 'Teuer' = German for 'expensive.') I always felt it would be a very bad idea to homogenize European currency, for Europe's own people, for foreign tourism, and for the sustainability and valuation of cultural goods in their respective lands.
Thinking back to Paris 2002, and reading your post Perry, I think I hate the Euro... that's a real tragedy, Paris is such an amazing, alive city to be just yanked from the grasp of any less than well-heeled traveller. That is a cultural crime against the world.
In Beerum Veritas
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Rob Creighton
- Bar Fly
- Posts: 851
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:00 pm
- Location: Dundas, ON
On the tipping issue, when I was young (the '60's & 70's), tipping was 10% - I never even heard of 15 % until the mid '80's. I used to watch friends and family figure out tips at the dinner table and always use 10%. When it switched, I was confused. Service at a percentage is relative no matter what the price. What caused the change? Servers weren't making enough and we as a society thought it should be upgraded? Europe was 15%? What? It always made me feel that a change had happened and I didn't get a notice of it.
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Jon Walker
- Seasoned Drinker
- Posts: 1899
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2001 8:00 pm
- Location: Wherever you go there you are
My last word on the matter, hopefully it clears up your confusion. Ultimately blame the Americans and French;
There was a time when restaurant tipping was the simplest thing in the world, especially if you had a major role in a Hollywood film and a large wad of make-believe money. In one dining-out scene in Billy Wilder's 1954 film, Sabrina Fair, William Holden was obliged to tip no less than thirteen restaurant employees. He doled out cash to the boy who opened the door of his car, the doorman, the hat-cheque girl, the maitre d'hotel who greeted him, the assistant head-waiter who seated him, the wine steward who uncorked his wine, two waiters who served him, the woman who delivered a telephone to his table, the attendant in the men's room, the cigarette girl, a photographer and the young man who returned his parked car. If most restaurants were that well staffed today, the burden of tipping would make the already high price of dining out absolutely unbearable.
Even though the concept of tipping first made its way into the English language and modern tradition in pre-revolutionary America, there are few areas of social politesse that continue to offer more confusion. As Benjamin Franklin observed during his stay in Paris, "to overtip is to appear an ass: to undertip is to appear an even greater ass". Finding the fine balance is not easy.
In its original form, a tip was a gratuity given voluntarily in return for or in anticipation of some service. The French were the first to make the tip mandatory: in 1955 a law was passed requiring every restaurant to add a service charge to every food and beverage bill, regardless of whether it was in the most simple cafe or the most luxurious restaurant. Most people were relieved, for it was thought that such uniformity would make life simpler. Unfortunately, even this did not solve the problem, for in many places and under a variety of circumstances, waiters and waitresses continued to expect an extra tip to be added to the amount that appeared on the bill. One should not judge these people harshly, however, because much of the money added as a "service charge" never got to the people who actually brought the food to the tables. Some of it went to the owner to cover the cost of washing tablecloths and napkins; some went to the dishwasher; some went to the barman; some went to the busboys. The little that remained went to the waiter.
Following, in the hope that it may help some lost soul, is my own completely unofficial guide to restaurant and cafe tipping. These hints are based on the fact that most waiters and waitresses receive only token salaries which are intended to be complemented by tips and on the observable truth that waiting on tables is hard, often frustrating work.
Although some (especially in the United States) feel that the minimally acceptable tip is 20% of the bill), most local waiters agree that an appropriate tip for really good service will be about 15% of the amount of the bill before value added tax. For average service a 10 - 12% tip is considered adequate. In extremely simple restaurants, where one eats at the counter or where service is not an important part of the meal, a tip of 10% is also considered appropriate. In small establishments, where the owner serves you, tips are not expected.
More and more local restaurants and even a few cafes around the world are adopting the French practice of automatically adding a service charge to every bill. In such cases, do not hesitate to ask your waiter or waitress whether that amount is earmarked for them. If it is not (some overly greedy restaurant owners feel that they are entitled to this additional charge), leave an appropriate tip for the person who served you. Keep in mind that in such cases restaurateurs are not only abusing their staff. By forcing us to pay a double service charge, they are also abusing their clients. Personally, I hesitate to return to such places.
There is a civilized European tradition that dictates that if the service has been specially good and has added to the pleasure of the meal, one should not hesitate to leave something above the usual amount. One should also add a small additional amount to the tip if they have requested special services. (Being paged for eight phone calls, asking the waiter to watch your car so that it won't receive a citation or be towed away while you are dining are extra work and should be rewarded appropriately.
Throughout the world, most hotels automatically add a service charge to their restaurant bills. Almost invariably, this 15% charge is divided between the entire house staff, from bus boys and dish washers to waitresses. Hotel waiters and waitresses generally receive a somewhat larger (but still not generous) salary than their brothers and sisters working in other restaurants, but if service has been good it is still considered appropriate to leave an extra tip that will come to between five and ten percent of the bill. This is especially true for a large party that occupied a table or for those who requested special services.
In cafes and pubs, a good rule of thumb is that tips should come to 10 - 15% of the bill, depending primarily on how intricate the service. Here too, however, a certain amount of discretion is in order. If you have consumed a single beer or a lone cup of coffee and have occupied a table for two hours, the tip should take that into consideration and be somewhat more generous. Some cafes have also started adding a service charge directly to the bill. In such cases, where this does go directly to the waiter or waitress, it is not inappropriate to leave a few small coins as an additional tip if the service was good.
And what to do if meal and the service were really bad? If the food was bad, talk to the manager or owner but don't take it out on the waiters - it wasn't their fault. On the other hand, if the service was rude or otherwise bad, thus probably spoiling your meal no matter how good the food might have been, the best revenge is attained by not leaving any tip at all. I agree that "stiffing a waiter", that is to say, not leaving a tip takes a certain amount of courage, but it is, after all, one of the few legitimate forms of revenge one has after suffering at his or her hands. I do not recommended following the example of Humphrey Bogart who, in 1950, after a particularly bad evening at New York's Club 21, called the waiter into the men's room and there knocked him unconscious. Although the waiter did not get a tip, he did successfully sue Bogart for $15,000.
Happy tipping!
Jon Walker
http://www.stratsplace.com/rogov/tips_on_tipping.html
There was a time when restaurant tipping was the simplest thing in the world, especially if you had a major role in a Hollywood film and a large wad of make-believe money. In one dining-out scene in Billy Wilder's 1954 film, Sabrina Fair, William Holden was obliged to tip no less than thirteen restaurant employees. He doled out cash to the boy who opened the door of his car, the doorman, the hat-cheque girl, the maitre d'hotel who greeted him, the assistant head-waiter who seated him, the wine steward who uncorked his wine, two waiters who served him, the woman who delivered a telephone to his table, the attendant in the men's room, the cigarette girl, a photographer and the young man who returned his parked car. If most restaurants were that well staffed today, the burden of tipping would make the already high price of dining out absolutely unbearable.
Even though the concept of tipping first made its way into the English language and modern tradition in pre-revolutionary America, there are few areas of social politesse that continue to offer more confusion. As Benjamin Franklin observed during his stay in Paris, "to overtip is to appear an ass: to undertip is to appear an even greater ass". Finding the fine balance is not easy.
In its original form, a tip was a gratuity given voluntarily in return for or in anticipation of some service. The French were the first to make the tip mandatory: in 1955 a law was passed requiring every restaurant to add a service charge to every food and beverage bill, regardless of whether it was in the most simple cafe or the most luxurious restaurant. Most people were relieved, for it was thought that such uniformity would make life simpler. Unfortunately, even this did not solve the problem, for in many places and under a variety of circumstances, waiters and waitresses continued to expect an extra tip to be added to the amount that appeared on the bill. One should not judge these people harshly, however, because much of the money added as a "service charge" never got to the people who actually brought the food to the tables. Some of it went to the owner to cover the cost of washing tablecloths and napkins; some went to the dishwasher; some went to the barman; some went to the busboys. The little that remained went to the waiter.
Following, in the hope that it may help some lost soul, is my own completely unofficial guide to restaurant and cafe tipping. These hints are based on the fact that most waiters and waitresses receive only token salaries which are intended to be complemented by tips and on the observable truth that waiting on tables is hard, often frustrating work.
Although some (especially in the United States) feel that the minimally acceptable tip is 20% of the bill), most local waiters agree that an appropriate tip for really good service will be about 15% of the amount of the bill before value added tax. For average service a 10 - 12% tip is considered adequate. In extremely simple restaurants, where one eats at the counter or where service is not an important part of the meal, a tip of 10% is also considered appropriate. In small establishments, where the owner serves you, tips are not expected.
More and more local restaurants and even a few cafes around the world are adopting the French practice of automatically adding a service charge to every bill. In such cases, do not hesitate to ask your waiter or waitress whether that amount is earmarked for them. If it is not (some overly greedy restaurant owners feel that they are entitled to this additional charge), leave an appropriate tip for the person who served you. Keep in mind that in such cases restaurateurs are not only abusing their staff. By forcing us to pay a double service charge, they are also abusing their clients. Personally, I hesitate to return to such places.
There is a civilized European tradition that dictates that if the service has been specially good and has added to the pleasure of the meal, one should not hesitate to leave something above the usual amount. One should also add a small additional amount to the tip if they have requested special services. (Being paged for eight phone calls, asking the waiter to watch your car so that it won't receive a citation or be towed away while you are dining are extra work and should be rewarded appropriately.
Throughout the world, most hotels automatically add a service charge to their restaurant bills. Almost invariably, this 15% charge is divided between the entire house staff, from bus boys and dish washers to waitresses. Hotel waiters and waitresses generally receive a somewhat larger (but still not generous) salary than their brothers and sisters working in other restaurants, but if service has been good it is still considered appropriate to leave an extra tip that will come to between five and ten percent of the bill. This is especially true for a large party that occupied a table or for those who requested special services.
In cafes and pubs, a good rule of thumb is that tips should come to 10 - 15% of the bill, depending primarily on how intricate the service. Here too, however, a certain amount of discretion is in order. If you have consumed a single beer or a lone cup of coffee and have occupied a table for two hours, the tip should take that into consideration and be somewhat more generous. Some cafes have also started adding a service charge directly to the bill. In such cases, where this does go directly to the waiter or waitress, it is not inappropriate to leave a few small coins as an additional tip if the service was good.
And what to do if meal and the service were really bad? If the food was bad, talk to the manager or owner but don't take it out on the waiters - it wasn't their fault. On the other hand, if the service was rude or otherwise bad, thus probably spoiling your meal no matter how good the food might have been, the best revenge is attained by not leaving any tip at all. I agree that "stiffing a waiter", that is to say, not leaving a tip takes a certain amount of courage, but it is, after all, one of the few legitimate forms of revenge one has after suffering at his or her hands. I do not recommended following the example of Humphrey Bogart who, in 1950, after a particularly bad evening at New York's Club 21, called the waiter into the men's room and there knocked him unconscious. Although the waiter did not get a tip, he did successfully sue Bogart for $15,000.
Happy tipping!
Jon Walker
http://www.stratsplace.com/rogov/tips_on_tipping.html
I just think there should be prices inclusive of everything and dispense with all the pretentious 'numbers game' bullsh-t. If it's what you're going to pay in the end, just CALL it in the beginning, taxes & service & all built in right there in the menu price.
This will probably scare off some business initially, but that's what people are paying anyway so what's the difference? Make all the stupid calculations the proprietor's problem and stop pretending everything's 30% less than it really costs just to look good. Being quite blunt here, sorry. It's an odious practice and I much prefer tax/tip inclusive pricing systems for the obvious simplicity and enjoyment of life.
This will probably scare off some business initially, but that's what people are paying anyway so what's the difference? Make all the stupid calculations the proprietor's problem and stop pretending everything's 30% less than it really costs just to look good. Being quite blunt here, sorry. It's an odious practice and I much prefer tax/tip inclusive pricing systems for the obvious simplicity and enjoyment of life.
In Beerum Veritas
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inertiaboy
- Bar Fly
- Posts: 556
- Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:18 pm
- Location: Steve, Ottawa West
- Contact:
this is the way it's done in Australia. the servers get paid a reasonable wage and the prices are all inclusive. plus you can bring your own beer to many establishmentsIf it's what you're going to pay in the end, just CALL it in the beginning, taxes & service & all built in right there in the menu price.
Which is the real crux of the issue really. I actually wish all taxes would be included in prices as well. (Don't get me started on car purchases and airline flights. )inertiaboy wrote: this is the way it's done in Australia. the servers get paid a reasonable wage and the prices are all inclusive. plus you can bring your own beer to many establishments
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BeverageAcademy
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:12 pm
- Location: London
Personally, I find that it is alright for waiters/bartenders to receive a less than minimum wage basepay since the majority of their actual take-home comes from non-declared tips. That's the way it should work since they do so much of the hands-on work. If they don't provide good service, then they receive less take-home (but rest assured they still are guaranteed so much just for showing up on a slow night). I know a lot of bartenders that make a huge income based on volume and the fact that they do a great job. It seems fair in that instance.
Generally, I pay the taxes as a tip (15%) but then do a plus/minus system based on the value of service and overall price of the food/beverages purchased. If I am getting overcharged for the drink and getting basic service, why should I pay more for the 'privilege'?
Anyway, what I do hate is the fact that some places add in tip automatically.... I believe it to be rude and greedy on the part of the owner since it has to be presumed that the serving staff do not actually get a proper "cut" for their work (catering events and others might be obvious exceptions). How dare they simply assume that the service was good? What recourse is there if the service wasn't? Can we likewise automatically deduct 20% off the bill if we didn't like the way the steak was prepared? I doubt we'd get away with it....
The whole tipping system is getting out of hand now. It seems that everyone in the food service industry is now trying to extort tips: pizza places, food trucks, take-out places. How much longer until McDonald's or some other big-name franchise starts automatically adding in tips? That'll really be discouraging!
Generally, I pay the taxes as a tip (15%) but then do a plus/minus system based on the value of service and overall price of the food/beverages purchased. If I am getting overcharged for the drink and getting basic service, why should I pay more for the 'privilege'?
Anyway, what I do hate is the fact that some places add in tip automatically.... I believe it to be rude and greedy on the part of the owner since it has to be presumed that the serving staff do not actually get a proper "cut" for their work (catering events and others might be obvious exceptions). How dare they simply assume that the service was good? What recourse is there if the service wasn't? Can we likewise automatically deduct 20% off the bill if we didn't like the way the steak was prepared? I doubt we'd get away with it....
The whole tipping system is getting out of hand now. It seems that everyone in the food service industry is now trying to extort tips: pizza places, food trucks, take-out places. How much longer until McDonald's or some other big-name franchise starts automatically adding in tips? That'll really be discouraging!
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BeverageAcademy
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:12 pm
- Location: London
I will go on record as saying that I don't mind Keith's. I know it is not anything special and can easily be replaced with any of the other macro products (like 50, Export, etc.), so there is no way it should be considered a "premium" product. As much as Labatt wishes in its advertising (and that Scottish actor is really annoying), it is just the same watered down stuff that gets poured into the other bottles with different labels.
The whole idea that it is something different IS pure marketing and I guess one can't blame a beer company for trying. My issue is that the macro breweries buy up these great little indies and then turn them into generic brews (but that's another issue altogether).
Most bars themselves can't be blamed for the ridiculous prices on some of these "faux premium" beers since they SHOULD just apply a standard mark-up to the cost they are charged at the LCBO or Brewer's Retail (350% is reasonable in terms of covering labour, rent, profit, etc.). The macro brewery is the one which should be held accountable. Perhaps in some cases, greedy bar-owners will try to extort exorbinant prices for perceived premium products (ie. Thorny Devil) but "let the buyer beware", I suppose.
The bar industry isn't notable for the ethical qualities of its owns so aside from protesting with their feet, customers will get whatever they are willing to pay for. Some people simply will tolerate paying more for something just to be seen with it in their hand (how else would be explain Corona selling so well?). Bar owners will try to take advantage of that fact, I guess....
I know I am not saying anything original, just more getting things off my chest since I am at my crappy job and bored as hell.... Who to blame for outrageous pricing then? Greedy breweries and greedy barowners... Don't like the price, buy something else or buy something good and a better place....
The whole idea that it is something different IS pure marketing and I guess one can't blame a beer company for trying. My issue is that the macro breweries buy up these great little indies and then turn them into generic brews (but that's another issue altogether).
Most bars themselves can't be blamed for the ridiculous prices on some of these "faux premium" beers since they SHOULD just apply a standard mark-up to the cost they are charged at the LCBO or Brewer's Retail (350% is reasonable in terms of covering labour, rent, profit, etc.). The macro brewery is the one which should be held accountable. Perhaps in some cases, greedy bar-owners will try to extort exorbinant prices for perceived premium products (ie. Thorny Devil) but "let the buyer beware", I suppose.
The bar industry isn't notable for the ethical qualities of its owns so aside from protesting with their feet, customers will get whatever they are willing to pay for. Some people simply will tolerate paying more for something just to be seen with it in their hand (how else would be explain Corona selling so well?). Bar owners will try to take advantage of that fact, I guess....
I know I am not saying anything original, just more getting things off my chest since I am at my crappy job and bored as hell.... Who to blame for outrageous pricing then? Greedy breweries and greedy barowners... Don't like the price, buy something else or buy something good and a better place....
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antirealist
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 6:26 pm
- Location: Yorkville
Do they though? The only place I've come across this in downtown TO is (inexplicably) Le Marché, where there's no actual table service.BeverageAcademy wrote:Anyway, what I do hate is the fact that some places add in tip automatically....
Nowadays I'm quite comfortable thank you, but I vividly recall working in miserable service jobs for next to nothing, so I tend to be a very generous tipper. I do realize that not everyone can afford to do this - which is even more reason for me to be generous.
Am I wrong in thinking that Revenue Canada will make an estimate of income from tips, and tax servers accordingly? Or is that a myth?
I just came back from France and I too noticed the steep beer prices. In Paris, if you go to fancy cafes like Lipps or Les Deux Magots, you will expect to drop almost 10 euros for a demi (25cl). Pubs like Falstaff would of cost you around 8 euros for a pint. There are actually two Canadian pubs in Paris, one called The Moose and the other, The Great Canadian. You can get canadian beers there like a bottle of Moose for like 6 euros, and other Unibroue beers would of cost you 10 euros a bottle.PRMason wrote:I was there (Paris) a year ago this month and found the prices to be really steep. I have been there several times, but this time it really shocked me. In any café in the city, you get a Croque Monsieur ( basically a grilled cheese with ham) a tiny bit of salad and a 25cl "biere de café" (usually Kronenbourg) and it will set you back at least the equivalent of $20.00. I agree that you can do much better going to the Monoprix and getting some cheese, a decent bottle of red and a baguette at a fine boulangerie, but the same can be said about Ontario (well, except for the price of the wine). The bar prices are outrageous.
In Lyon, there is a beer place call Le Palais de la Biere and it is like walking into Smokeless Joes. 15 beer taps and 300 bottles available. I was able to try some Lyonaise chestnut beer which was interesting. It's kind of a specialty place, so beer prices there are around 7 euros for a demi.
In general, averaging out the many pubs, cafes and student hangouts, a pint of beer would of ranged around 6 to 7 euros which is around 8 to 11 canadian. So when i came back to Toronto, i have to say that I am glad to be back to more manageable prices.
Ron
Those prices are hurting my eyes! 10 Euros for ONE beer - that is almost FIFTEEN dollars! Almost sixty bucks per liter for fermented barley water? I think I'll move there and open a bar, under-cut all those crazy bastards.ron.chan wrote:I just came back from France and I too noticed the steep beer prices. In Paris, if you go to fancy cafes like Lipps or Les Deux Magots, you will expect to drop almost 10 euros for a demi (25cl). Pubs like Falstaff would of cost you around 8 euros for a pint. There are actually two Canadian pubs in Paris, one called The Moose and the other, The Great Canadian. You can get canadian beers there like a bottle of Moose for like 6 euros, and other Unibroue beers would of cost you 10 euros a bottle.PRMason wrote:I was there (Paris) a year ago this month and found the prices to be really steep. I have been there several times, but this time it really shocked me. In any café in the city, you get a Croque Monsieur ( basically a grilled cheese with ham) a tiny bit of salad and a 25cl "biere de café" (usually Kronenbourg) and it will set you back at least the equivalent of $20.00. I agree that you can do much better going to the Monoprix and getting some cheese, a decent bottle of red and a baguette at a fine boulangerie, but the same can be said about Ontario (well, except for the price of the wine). The bar prices are outrageous.
In Lyon, there is a beer place call Le Palais de la Biere and it is like walking into Smokeless Joes. 15 beer taps and 300 bottles available. I was able to try some Lyonaise chestnut beer which was interesting. It's kind of a specialty place, so beer prices there are around 7 euros for a demi.
In general, averaging out the many pubs, cafes and student hangouts, a pint of beer would of ranged around 6 to 7 euros which is around 8 to 11 canadian. So when i came back to Toronto, i have to say that I am glad to be back to more manageable prices.
Ron
So in a few short years, The Eternal City goes all to hell!
Europe is like the world's greatest theme park, I still say travel to Paris - just don't spend like a sucker. The PLACE is all that matters, and they can't stop you just being there.
In Beerum Veritas
I was in Paris earlier this year and it was the only place I went to that was more expensive than Toronto for a drink - Brussels, Antwerp, and Amsterdam weren't bad. A pint of beer usually costs between €6 and €7.50 in a bar such as an expat British or Canadian bar - when in French places I had wine so the only beers I had were in Anglo expat bars. There was one pseudo-Irish pub in the Latin Quarter selling pints for only €5 but it was the exception. The Moose Canadian bar sold Unibroue beer, as Ron said, but the one I had wasn't that expensive. I had a Blanche de Chambly and an Alpine from New Brunswick and each was around €6. Maybe Maudite and La Fin du Monde were €10 but not the Blanche de Chambly - this was back in March.
The biggest rip-off was in some Latin Quarter bar where I got a 250ml glass of pop filled with ice. The cost: €4! I didn't stay long enough to find out the price of the beer.
Incidentally, the poutine I had at the Moose was €7.50 and it was the tastiest I've ever had. It made the Rebel House poutine seem as bad as one from Burger King.
The biggest rip-off was in some Latin Quarter bar where I got a 250ml glass of pop filled with ice. The cost: €4! I didn't stay long enough to find out the price of the beer.
Incidentally, the poutine I had at the Moose was €7.50 and it was the tastiest I've ever had. It made the Rebel House poutine seem as bad as one from Burger King.