Another thread inspired me to ponder this. What does a pint cost in Toronto?
Im a bit skewed because when I go out lately i have sometimes been paying $8-10 a bottle at someplace like Smokeless or Beer Bistro which is one thing, because I am getting something rare and usually good.
Some entertainment district places charge upwards of $6 a pint for macro products, and I balked at paying like $7 a pint for some local beers at BierMarkt a while back, i took my business to Cest What for some slightly cheaper pints. ( I feel like prices there are going up slightly too, particularly half pints - am I crazy?)
But the kicker was a place in Mississauga charging $7+ for a bottle of LCBO available wheat beer. That just seemed like too much.
So am I crazy? Just cheap? Am I out of touch or do other people feel like beer is getting pricier lately?
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Price of a Pint
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Kid Presentable
- Posts: 144
- Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 8:00 pm
- Location: Toronto
you might be crazy, but you're definitely cheap.
what a lot of normal* people don't understand is that restaurants need to charge about 3x what they pay for a product in order to turn a profit at the end of the day. an lcbo available wheat beer costing around $2.50 being sold for $7.00 is about right.
also, most people aren't beer geeks and aren't going to say " I can get that at the lcbo for $xxx" if you think it's too much to pay for it in a bar, drink it at home.
entertainment district places charge whatever the majority is willing to pay because most people aren't there for the beer, they just want "a beer"
kp
*normal being those who don't work in restaurants
what a lot of normal* people don't understand is that restaurants need to charge about 3x what they pay for a product in order to turn a profit at the end of the day. an lcbo available wheat beer costing around $2.50 being sold for $7.00 is about right.
also, most people aren't beer geeks and aren't going to say " I can get that at the lcbo for $xxx" if you think it's too much to pay for it in a bar, drink it at home.
entertainment district places charge whatever the majority is willing to pay because most people aren't there for the beer, they just want "a beer"
kp
*normal being those who don't work in restaurants
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the.brewer
- Posts: 190
- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2003 7:00 pm
- Location: Toronto
Well said KP. No offence intended Jer.
When I think about the cost of things in life, I try to consider the obvious things such as quality, the size or scale of the enterprise, i.e. economy of scale. Ultimately the determinant of whether I am being overcharged or not is whether someone in the enterprise is getting ridiculously rich for doing very little in life. That person could be Bill Gates or a mutual fund manager, but it is rarely the case in the restaurant/bar business. Unfortunately in most other cases the purchaser is left in a position of ignorance due to lack of information. It's difficult to pull out the annual report of a company to analyse profits or senior management compensation before each purchase.
When I think about the cost of things in life, I try to consider the obvious things such as quality, the size or scale of the enterprise, i.e. economy of scale. Ultimately the determinant of whether I am being overcharged or not is whether someone in the enterprise is getting ridiculously rich for doing very little in life. That person could be Bill Gates or a mutual fund manager, but it is rarely the case in the restaurant/bar business. Unfortunately in most other cases the purchaser is left in a position of ignorance due to lack of information. It's difficult to pull out the annual report of a company to analyse profits or senior management compensation before each purchase.
I get that there needs to be a markup on things in order to keep in business and all that, but I sort of have it in my head that it wasn't so long ago that $6 got you a nice pint with a half decent tip, rather than just the pint.
in part I think my problem (especially with respect to prices of macro beers) is that I know I can get better beer for less money at other places.
I guess if I am going to complain i should just go someplace else right?
in part I think my problem (especially with respect to prices of macro beers) is that I know I can get better beer for less money at other places.
I guess if I am going to complain i should just go someplace else right?
I remember not long ago getting a pint for $5 including tip. I have to agree with Jeremy, the price of draft has increased significantly imo. Depending where you go it can cost as high as $8 a pint. I guess Volo on Mondays ($4 a pint) will be getting a lot of my business compared to other places.JerCraigs wrote:but I sort of have it in my head that it wasn't so long ago that $6 got you a nice pint with a half decent tip, rather than just the pint.
"Everything's better with monkeys!"
The reality is we live in an expensive city with highly desired downtown property which leads to high rents and high costs. These costs have to be passed down to the consumer in order for the business to survive.
I don't think pints have been generally increasing over the years. In fact, I know some instances where prices (I believe) have dropped since the smoking ban to continue to attract customers.
Anyway, there's always Sneaky Dee's where you can get a pitcher for $9-$10, which has been consistent for 10 years.
I don't think pints have been generally increasing over the years. In fact, I know some instances where prices (I believe) have dropped since the smoking ban to continue to attract customers.
Anyway, there's always Sneaky Dee's where you can get a pitcher for $9-$10, which has been consistent for 10 years.
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Steve Beaumont
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I remember when the price of an imported pint first crested the psychological barrier of $5 tax included. Craft-brewed beers followed shortly thereafter. Mind you, I was still bartending then, so we're talking about 14 or 15 years ago!
A couple of comments on draught prices. First, what Cass says is absolutely true -- Toronto is an expensive city and fixed costs (ie: rent, municiple taxes, recurring charges, etc.) must all be figured into the prices an establishment charges. I haven't spoken to Ralph about this, but Volo has been open in the same place for a long time on a stretch of Yonge Street that sees high turnover, and so I figure that his rent/mortgage is pretty reasonable, while beerbistro is in the center of it all and so our rent is astronomical. Believe me when I say that we strive to keep beer prices as reasonable as possible, but if we went cheaper we'd be looking at bankruptcy in no time.
Also, don't forget about taxes. Our delightful governments charge a combine 17% tax on all alcohol, which added to an average 15% tip means that 'extras' tack a full one-third more on to the price you pay at a bar. So a pint that costs you $6 tax and tip in delivers only $4.50 to the establishment.
And finally, what a lot of people outside of the service biz don't realize is that licencees are not allowed to buy any alcohol at wholesale prices. Instead, we get a piddling little 'licencee discount,' and even that is only available on some products.
A couple of comments on draught prices. First, what Cass says is absolutely true -- Toronto is an expensive city and fixed costs (ie: rent, municiple taxes, recurring charges, etc.) must all be figured into the prices an establishment charges. I haven't spoken to Ralph about this, but Volo has been open in the same place for a long time on a stretch of Yonge Street that sees high turnover, and so I figure that his rent/mortgage is pretty reasonable, while beerbistro is in the center of it all and so our rent is astronomical. Believe me when I say that we strive to keep beer prices as reasonable as possible, but if we went cheaper we'd be looking at bankruptcy in no time.
Also, don't forget about taxes. Our delightful governments charge a combine 17% tax on all alcohol, which added to an average 15% tip means that 'extras' tack a full one-third more on to the price you pay at a bar. So a pint that costs you $6 tax and tip in delivers only $4.50 to the establishment.
And finally, what a lot of people outside of the service biz don't realize is that licencees are not allowed to buy any alcohol at wholesale prices. Instead, we get a piddling little 'licencee discount,' and even that is only available on some products.
We should all do more research and figure out what is different about drinking beer in bars than at home.
I will report back on this.
I will report back on this.
In Beerum Veritas
Also, I'd like to add that insurance on restaurant/bars have gone up nearly 100%. When I first purchased Smokelesss, our insurance policy was roghly $4,000 a year, this year it went up to $10,000 (with no claims). Increases in every aspect of running a business has gone up, unfortunately, we have no option but to increase prices. Another fact to note, if you go for a beer in the entertainment district, Yorkville or the Financial District , you will pay more. Reason is rent is more. Its simple, we love to keep prices down, but our expenses keep rising fast. If you don't believe me, try opening up a restaurant/bar, believe me, you'll understand why we have to charge what we charge. I've had a few beers so I hope I make some sense.
If I've been paying more for a pint today than I did in years past, I can pretty much guarantee you that it's because I've been frequenting establishments of a higher standard.
(translation: I'm not 19 and broke anymore, no need to hit the dive bars)
Even when I was drinking in low-tax/cheap-rent Alberta last month, a pint was not significantly cheaper outside of happy hour.
(translation: I'm not 19 and broke anymore, no need to hit the dive bars)
Even when I was drinking in low-tax/cheap-rent Alberta last month, a pint was not significantly cheaper outside of happy hour.
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Colin @ Canada
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:00 pm
- Location: Kingston, Ontario
No sir. That's a "waste disposal surcharge."beanmedic wrote:that's horrible.Academy_Colin wrote:Well I've got one to top the list.
Met a group of friends in a club in Yorkville and ordered a bottle of Molson Dry (Not by choice) and the bartender looked me in the eye and with a straight face said, "that will be $8.50".
Colin
In Beerum Veritas
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PantyChrist
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:11 pm
- Location: Burlington
I just got back from San Diego, where pints at the place I went cost around $4 normally, although during Happy Hour and cheap beer nights, they are as low as $2. And that's for amazing local beers like Stone, Alesmith, etc. Luckily, my trip co-incided with the cheap pint nights at a couple of great beer bars. It was a pretty nice trip...
I should mention, though, that high quality imported bottles are priced at around what you'd pay at places like beerbistro and Smokeless. Or at least they were at O'Brien's, the one place where I looked at the import list. Although given the quality of the list, I could hardly complain.
(Cass, if you're interested, I can do up an On The Road report sometime soon.)
I should mention, though, that high quality imported bottles are priced at around what you'd pay at places like beerbistro and Smokeless. Or at least they were at O'Brien's, the one place where I looked at the import list. Although given the quality of the list, I could hardly complain.
(Cass, if you're interested, I can do up an On The Road report sometime soon.)