Fake handpump at Twisted Kilt

Stevetut · Post by **Stevetut** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:28 am

I'm in Toronto for the weekend and went to the Twisted Kilt last night to see how it had changed. At the bar I saw a new handpump with Fullers ESB on. The pump was just to the left of the three original pumps, which aren't in service yet. Curious as to why they would add a fourth handpump before activating cask ale on the originals, I asked the bartender. He said the Fullers ESB wasn't really cask but was served with low gas pressure. This "handpump" is a fake that appears to operate like the real thing, even requiring several pulls.. The ESB is the kegged version. This is a highly deceptive practice in my opinion. One of the owners confirmed they were going to have real cask ale on the original pumps, but how many will buy the Fullers assuming it's cask ale?

These fake Fullers pumps have been used elsewhere in the US and Canada. Here's a thread from Beer Advocate that addressed it a couple years ago.

http://beeradvocate.com/forum/read/817456

LondonBeer · Post by **LondonBeer** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:09 pm

When oxford arms was open in london they had the fake hand pumps for two fullers but did not try to pass it off as anything but regular keg beer. The average consumer would just think it was a fancy tap handle.

GregClow · Post by **GregClow** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:27 pm

These Fuller's pseudo-pumps have been in several bars around town for at least a couple of years now.

As long as the bars are honest about the fact that they're not true cask ale, I don't have a problem with them, and actually enjoy the beer that's served from them. Although a real cask ale would obviously be preferred, but that doesn't happen very often with Fuller's beers over here.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:57 pm

Well I don't know Greg, why do Fakers exist except perhaps to deceive people hoping for cask who don't KNOW and/or are NOT TOLD about the Fakers?

I mean, there is a strong possibility of fraud by implication. Seeing the bar, you'd have to either not know OR care about cask - OR know that these Fullers pumps were Cask Fakers - in order to NOT get taken in. It strains ethical clarity at best.

These are justifiably hated given the historical association of hand pumps with cask ale.

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:51 am

Is it possible to agree with both of you? The whole raison d'etre of the fake handpumps would seem to be to deceive, since they are so strongly associated with cask ale. At the very least, they are meant to give some sort of fake "Englishness" to the pub's atmosphere. At the same time, though, I've usually enjoyed the (Fuller's) beer that comes out of them. At least it tends to be less carbonated than a pure keg beer.

Stevetut · Post by **Stevetut** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:21 am

I saw several beers served from the fake pump before I asked the bartender about it. Nothing was said to the customers about it's true nature. After he told me, the bartender began informing customers in advance. I doubt he continued doing so after I left. Anyone who's familiar with cask would assume that was what they were getting and would be unlikely to ask questions. Unless the bartender informs each person who orders it, the pub is knowingly committing a fraud. To me that reflects negatively on the owner's ethics and makes it unlikely that I'll patronize the pub again. I resent being cheated and dislike seeing it happen to others.

icemachine · Post by **icemachine** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:30 pm

I don't blame the Bartenders, I blame Fuller's for knowingly setting these up in the first place. I've only seen Fuller's on these Fake Pumps, although I've never seen it advertised as Cask Ale, the implication is certainly there as you see it "pumped"

The Olde Angel Inn & Pub in Niagara on the lake has the same setup

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:42 pm

Well sure, if people like the hand-pumped keg beer and aren't feeling gypped...

And it's not like Toronto will be outraged any time soon by Fakers.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:54 pm

I've been deceived by them before, at Dora Keogh's on the Danforth. I finally asked the bartender if it was cask and he set me straight.

$ · Post by $ » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:30 am

cask is so rare, if it doesn't say cask on the menu or board, it's not cask

Philip1 · Post by **Philip1** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:37 pm

We need a CAMRA-style organisation that can verify if its cask. Those pubs that allow such verification get to put this 'CAMRA' organisation logo in the pub and the pub gets listed on the official website.

Torontoblue · Post by **Torontoblue** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:02 pm

Philip1 wrote:We need a CAMRA-style organisation that can verify if its cask. Those pubs that allow such verification get to put this 'CAMRA' organisation logo in the pub and the pub gets listed on the official website.

There already is, http://casktoronto.wordpress.com/about/

Imbiber · Post by **Imbiber** » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:19 pm

Indeed we do - Greene King have just started the same deceit with a wave of shiny stainless steel lookalikes with oversized swan necks.

In the absence of CAMRA this side of the Atlantic, I've mounted a campaign on Facebook against Greene King. Maybe Fullers too will pay attention if it gets big enough.

www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=168746171575
(or do a search for “Tell Greene King”)
More information: www.gotham-imbiber.com

Please join and help the cause - cheers!

Philip1 wrote:We need a CAMRA-style organisation that can verify if its cask. Those pubs that allow such verification get to put this 'CAMRA' organisation logo in the pub and the pub gets listed on the official website.

Stevetut · Post by **Stevetut** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:17 am

While I was in Toronto over your Thanksgiving weekend I also stopped at The Monk's Table. They had a "handpump" at the end of the bar that I didn't remember seeing on my last visit there around 1.5 years ago. It had Fullers London Porter on. The chalkboard and menu made no mention of cask but I was suspicious and asked about it. One of the current owners, I believe, admitted it was a keg beer and was quick to defend it by pointing out they don't call it cask. I asked why then use a fake handpump because it misleads people into thinking it's real cask beer. He claimed they use it "just to have something that looks different". What a load of rubbish! He also claimed I was the only person to ever question or mention it, and his tone implied I was being overly picky about it.

I don't think this scam should be passively tolerated when encountered in pubs. We need to let the owners know we are aware of the misrepresentation and consider it a dishonest practice even if they don't actually call it cask beer.

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:31 am

Stevetut wrote:While I was in Toronto over your Thanksgiving weekend I also stopped at The Monk's Table. They had a "handpump" at the end of the bar that I didn't remember seeing on my last visit there around 1.5 years ago. It had Fullers London Porter on. The chalkboard and menu made no mention of cask but I was suspicious and asked about it. One of the current owners, I believe, admitted it was a keg beer and was quick to defend it by pointing out they don't call it cask. I asked why then use a fake handpump because it misleads people into thinking it's real cask beer. He claimed they use it "just to have something that looks different". What a load of rubbish! He also claimed I was the only person to ever question or mention it, and his tone implied I was being overly picky about it.

I don't think this scam should be passively tolerated when encountered in pubs. We need to let the owners know we are aware of the misrepresentation and consider it a dishonest practice even if they don't actually call it cask beer.

I agree.

I am finding more and more of these fake casks in and around the greater London area as well, and it is quite disturbing. Mainly because the breweries know full well that they are misleading the public, but secondly because often the owners of these places really don't seem to care. I say we punish these types of places by not purchasing whatever beer is on the fake cask.