The Bar Towel

Malcolm wrote:

atomeyes wrote:basically, there's little to no reason for me to go to 99% of Toronto bars. they're not doing anything interesting. the only one that pushes the envelope with draught and bottle selection is Volo. the only other bars that come close would be Rhino, Bier Market and Beer Bistro, but their draught list isn't close at all. so if you, for whatever reason, decide to not head to Volo, then its fine with me. more room for me to drink and less beer options for you.

I guess you've never heard of C'est What?

I'd also give a fair shake to new Smokeless Joe, The Only Café and even Castro's in the Beach. ALL improving their game in small leaps. Sometimes Cloak and Dagger and Burger Bar have a few gems.

Though you can't entirely blame local people's apathy on themselves. I've seen Cest What do brilliant & surprising things, while on other days it is a snore fest and I wonder why I've gone out of my way.
Maybe the answer is to be patient, expect growing pains, and keep looking around for (and supporting) signs of progress rather than shutting in your view with a purely negative attitude.

atomeyes wrote:thanks for the reply.
my point is that my perceived difference between Volo and CW is that Volo tries and CW TRIED (in the past). I don't find CW to be on the cutting edge of Toronto's beer scene.

Oooh, "cutting edge". That's your criteria for lumping C'est What into your "any old bar" category? Maybe they just don't give a rat's ass about being "cutting edge", whatever the hell that means. Maybe they just care about having more taps and casks of quality beer from local brewers than most of the bars downtown, and serving them properly to people who appreciate them.
Not you, of course.

Malcolm wrote:

atomeyes wrote:thanks for the reply.
my point is that my perceived difference between Volo and CW is that Volo tries and CW TRIED (in the past). I don't find CW to be on the cutting edge of Toronto's beer scene.

Oooh, "cutting edge". That's your criteria for lumping C'est What into your "any old bar" category? Maybe they just don't give a rat's ass about being "cutting edge", whatever the hell that means. Maybe they just care about having more taps and casks of quality beer from local brewers than most of the bars downtown, and serving them properly to people who appreciate them.
Not you, of course.

Properly? What about the glassware situation there?

I dunno, is there an issue with pint glasses? Of the many I've raised I haven't had a problem, save for the odd dishwasher\soapy smell. But if it's affecting the beer taste, it's quickly replaced.

Malcolm wrote:I dunno, is there an issue with pint glasses? Of the many I've raised I haven't had a problem, save for the odd dishwasher\soapy smell. But if it's affecting the beer taste, it's quickly replaced.

Being served imperial stouts (Wellington's) in a pint glass is bit much, no? And the half pints are just smaller, thicker pint glasses. So much for sensory perception on a beer (and I'm sure there are others) that has quite a bit going on in it! Gimmie a tulip instead any day... (a la Volo - for the half pints)

liamt07 wrote:

Malcolm wrote:I dunno, is there an issue with pint glasses? Of the many I've raised I haven't had a problem, save for the odd dishwasher\soapy smell. But if it's affecting the beer taste, it's quickly replaced.

Being served imperial stouts (Wellington's) in a pint glass is bit much, no? And the half pints are just smaller, thicker pint glasses. So much for sensory perception on a beer (and I'm sure there are others) that has quite a bit going on in it! Gimmie a tulip instead any day... (a la Volo - for the half pints)

I think that has more to do with their respective atmospheres. Volo has the image of serving a great selection of beers and they are serving them in "proper" glassware and it is an experience to be there, where CW is just a great pub with a great selection and it's also an experience to be there, just a different one.

I wouldn't expect a gastro pub to serve their food the same way a fine dining restaurant would, because it's a different atmosphere. The same meal at the different restaurants would be presented differently, on different plates and likely the actual service would differ quite a lot as well.

If I'm in the city and want a night with my girlfriend just the two of us hanging out trying some really unique beers, we'll go to Volo, if I want to meet up with a group of friends from college, I'd go to CW, because I can still have my selection of cool beers and it has a more relaxed vibe that my soon to be ex-non-craft drinking buddies are into.

I suppose the argument could be made that because CW has such a large line up of beers on tap, cask and in bottle, some of which are fairly standard to the average craft drinker and some of which are true gems, that it's doing more than most to support the local beer culture, because it's more accessible to non-craft drinkers than other 'cutting edge' bars. Therefore, it helps introduce many people to the world of craft. I always get my friends to go there after a hockey or baseball game and they've all since converted, in some capacity or another, to craft drinkers.

I'm not making that argument, just pointing out an observation. I'm not putting down Volo or any other awesome bar (Beer Bistro, Burger Bar, Only Cafe, Smokeless...the list goes on) in the city either. I love visiting Toronto for the great options it presents me with. I wish I had the problem of deciding which of all my local bars was the most cutting edge, had the best tap list VS bottle list, etc. I'm just happy to find bars here that have good craft on tap. Forget about boundary pushing bottle selection. Hopefully more of my locals take a cue from any of the fantastic places mentioned above and pick up the slack.

The Mick wrote: I suppose the argument could be made that because CW has such a large line up of beers on tap, cask and in bottle, some of which are fairly standard to the average craft drinker and some of which are true gems, that it's doing more than most to support the local beer culture, because it's more accessible to non-craft drinkers than other 'cutting edge' bars. Therefore, it helps introduce many people to the world of craft. I always get my friends to go there after a hockey or baseball game and they've all since converted, in some capacity or another, to craft drinkers.

That's a good point, one that I think has been missing from this dialogue. C'est What now attracts such a diverse clentele of people that it invariably introduces people to craft beer on a daily basis. I don't know the number of times I've been sitting there and someone asks for a Coors, Bud etc. The tap list to them looks like Sanscrit so they're politely steered to Organic, King Pilsener, etc. Whether or not this translates to a shift in their beer consuming habits is unknown to me, but I see a lot of familiar faces there now and hear stories about how they tried "this beer" because they didn't know what else to order and have kept coming back for it. That's a huge shot in the arm for local brewers.

"Being served imperial stouts (Wellington's) in a pint glass is bit much, no?"
Not for me, but that's because Imperial Stouts are my favourite style! Actually I don't like half-pints of any sort, tulip or the C'est style.

Malcolm wrote:

atomeyes wrote:thanks for the reply.
my point is that my perceived difference between Volo and CW is that Volo tries and CW TRIED (in the past). I don't find CW to be on the cutting edge of Toronto's beer scene.

Oooh, "cutting edge". That's your criteria for lumping C'est What into your "any old bar" category? Maybe they just don't give a rat's ass about being "cutting edge", whatever the hell that means. Maybe they just care about having more taps and casks of quality beer from local brewers than most of the bars downtown, and serving them properly to people who appreciate them.
Not you, of course.

did i say CW is the same as any old bar?
i said that Volo's ahead of it in improving Toronto's beer culture and giving us more interesting beer options. end of story.