why I don't like the bier markt

Kid Presentable · Post by **Kid Presentable** » Fri Jul 18, 2003 8:14 pm

I was at the bier markt last night with a couple of friends in from out of town. to begin with it was incredibly loud, smoky and crowded. first we tried to order a rogue hazelnut brown, the waiter looked at me like I was stupid and told me I must have meant the amsterdam nut brown, but then I showed him the menu and he was totally surprised, and after all that they didn't have it. next we tried to order some westmalle triple, but they didn't have that either. we ended up ordering 2 rochfort 10, a verboten vrucht, and a cheese plate. when we got our beers(all completly freezing cold), the server brought three pilsner glasses. I asked him if he had more appropriate glasses for the beers, perhaps a goblet or a tulip and he looked at me again like I was on crack. he said he'd go get some different glasses, but then went on to serve two or three more tables. he took so long I went to get the glasses myself, and when he saw me he didn't seem at all surprised. we also had to re-order our cheese plate because he forgot to ring it in. I know restaurants have off nights, but this isn't the first time I've had an experience like this. the thing that sucks is that they have good beer, but don't ssem to know it.

kp

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 11:09 am

In defence of the Biermarkt, I can tell you that I know that they actually go to great lengths to educate staff and generally their staff is pretty good, however, unless the waiter had just started in the past week, there is no excuse for him not knowing what is on his menu. As for the glassware issue, that is the fault of the bartender who is supposed to ensure that every beer goes out the appropriate glass if it is available and I know that the Esplanade has Rochefort and Verboden glassware. Again, they don't stock large quantities of glassware so if there's a run on one of these beers there might not be a clean glass available but that shouldn't occur too often.
I don't know whether the Esplanade's receipts give the name of the server but, if they do, let me know and I'll pass it on to their General Manager as I know he'd want to know.
As for smoke and noise, well that comes with the territory.

Kid Presentable · Post by **Kid Presentable** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 3:53 pm

didn't get the server's name, but like I said this wasn't the first time I've had a problem with the service or uneducated staff. so if you ant to tell that to the general manager go ahead.

kp

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:38 pm

They seem to run out of things a lot. I have frequently had to go to my third or fourth choice from the menu. Not sure why that is.

Andicus · Post by **Andicus** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:55 pm

The last time I was at the Bier Markt, the waitress had no problem with our beer choices, and everything I had came in an appropriate glass. The mussels and frites were great! The noise, which fortunately didn't start until after our meal, was a real PITA. There was a band playing that was pretty bad and WAY too loud. We had a fair size group and were in a somewhat isolated room, so shutting the doors and drawing the dense drapes seemed to help.

Andrew

JWalter · Post by **JWalter** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:04 am

For what it's worth, I'm not too keen on the Bier Markt either, I've been in a few times and when it first opened I had high hopes but then somewhere along the way it got super popular and packed and now I just can't really be bothered with it. I seem to remember the staff were less than helpful, and one time when we had planned to hit it as part of a pub crawl they had a band playing and wanted $10 cover to get in, just to have a pint!

I'd much rather a nice cozy pub atmosphere type place...

dhurtubise · Post by **dhurtubise** » Wed Jul 30, 2003 9:45 am

I have had pretty bad service at the markt on my first visit, about five years ago. That being said, since that time, things have changed alot at the restaurant. I have never been provided inapropriate glassware for a beer there and service has been generally good. I am sure that your glassware experience is isolated. The noise, smoke and crowd is everpresent on weekend nights and can be avoided by visiting the establishment during the week or earlier during the day.

In my opinion, this kind of thread is a little objectionable and not altogether responsible. You have had a bad experience at an establishment because of the help and you should complain to the management, not a public forum (unless maybe if you have already done the previous without results). I am sure that that there are some people who have had bad service even at a friendly place like Smokeless and if they were to write their complaints on this forum, it would paint a picture that is NOT representative of what we know of that place.

I think the Bier Markt is providing generally excellent service. More important than that is the role I feel the Markt is providing the beer drinking community. I have never seen a beer bar with a huge line-up, never mind a small one before visiting that place on a weekend. The bonus is that the majority of the clientel is of the younger variety and though they are mostly going because the place is "popular" and because it has gotten trendy to be drinking imports in nice glassware, I would argue that there are more people (read beer virgins) being turned on to good beer there than anywhere else in Canada at the moment.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dhurtubise on 2003-07-31 12:30 ]</font>

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:05 pm

I've been there many times when bands were playing and there was never a cover and I agree with dhurtubuise, if you've got a complaint, tell management instead of slamming the place publicly based upon a single episode. I've sent many people there and had nothing but good feedback and if the occasional new staffer screws up, so what, where doesn't that happen. We need more places like the Biermarkt in Toronto and Ontario because they are in fact turning on a whole new generation to the variety and complexity of beers available out there.

Kid Presentable · Post by **Kid Presentable** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:46 pm

okay, here's the deal. I wasn't bashing the bier markt on a single episode, like I said, it wasn't the first time I've had service like that. I've been to the bier markt many times and maybe I'm just there at the wrong time, but I've always seemed to have a problem with uneducated staff.

this is a website about beer in toronto. me having a continually poor experience at a beer bar constitutes a post in my opinion. I wasn't "slamming it publicly" for the sake of it, I was sharing my experience with this forum just like I would if I had a continually great experiance at a bar. I wasn't trying to offend anyone, and I'm sorry if I did, but I know I'm not the only one who has had problems with the staff or inconsistency with the beer list.

kp

dhurtubise · Post by **dhurtubise** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:55 pm

OK.

The Biermarkt has been there a long time now. And as a fairly frequent visitor, I don't know what the hell you are talking about as far as the uneducated staff serving beer in the wrong glasses. I have never had such an experience in... probably 50 straight visits. So.... your glassware issue is surely isolated.

The place is very busy, especially on nights when they have a band there, wether you like the music or not, it does help the business and does help putting a Cremore Springs or Blanche de Chambly or a Warsteiner in the hands of someone who would normally order a Blue or a Canadian. I like the place because I can actually take my wife there and know she will have fun despite the fact that she doesn't like beer. I like the place because I know I will have fun because I know that I will be served excellent beer as it should be served.... for belgian beers and german lagers, this is hard to find outside that establishment in Canada.

NOW: your poor service on a busy night is going to happen anywhere ...on any busy night. The fact that the band was playing in the background (from your complaint) indicates to me that the place was PACKED (you were probably lucky to get a table). SO.... if you don't like that it is loud and packed on the weekend nights... go somewhere where it is not. May I suggest Smokeless Joe's: No excessive noise, no smoke, no massive crowds and roughly the same beer selection.

For the volume of people making their way into that establishment on weekends, they do a wonderful job keeping hundreds of cunsumers satisfied. Aside from my first visit, I've always had great service. And I for one commend the Biermarkt because they are a very important contributor as to why the LCBO can stock some specialty international beers despite the fact that, in general, Ontario beer palates are stuck roughly in grade 2 of their beer education. If great service is such an important element to enjoying your night, try going there when it is practically empty... say Friday night at 6:30PM for dinner and choice beers and then going elsewhere about 10PM when the band starts making noise and attracting potential beer students.

JWalter · Post by **JWalter** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 3:55 pm

I can see both sides of the argument here, and my 2 cents are:

1) I think both Kid Presentable and I were providing details of specific instances at the Bier Markt, note the title of the thread for instances, it wasn't just "Bier Markt Sucks" or something like that, he's given specific details as to his experience and encouraged others on the board to post their experiences.

2) I think anyone who reads anything online naturally takes it for what it is, one individual's opinion, when shopping for a new MP3 Player for instance, I read dozens of reviews online, not taking only a single person's opinion as the gospel.

3) I applaud ANYONE who posts their opinions GOOD or BAD, as this is what makes these forums worthwhile. If bar towellers in general like the Bier Markt, then this thread, or other similar threads will show that...

4) Lastly, I do agree though, that if a person does have a problem with services/etc, they should give the establishment the immediate opportunity to correct it (i.e. see the bad pint at Feathers thread), but at the same time, I wouldn't say that failure to do that means you've waived your right to post your experience publicly...

For what it's worth, I'm going to give the Bier Markt another chance, try to head down myself for lunch one day and I'll post my experience back to the thread!! Anyone want to join me for a pint? :^) Heck, we could even make it next Friday, go for lunch there, and then head to the Beer Festival - doesn't it start at 2:00pm?

Regards,

John.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 11:53 am

Hey folks,

Wanted to chime in with some thoughts on this. I think everyone can agree that the EBM is a better place to have than not. They are one of the few bars in Toronto that offers exclusive and rare beers.

However, being such a large establishment with a diverse clientele has led to some problems. We have in fact discussed this in the past:

http://www.bartowel.com/board/viewtopic ... 48&forum=1

The GM at the time did contribute to the conversation with his thoughts. It is obviously difficult for the EBM to ensure that everyone who walks in the door has an optimal experience: some people go for the upscale-bar and only want Stella, some go for the rare beers that they stock, some go for other reasons. It is not easy to please all patrons at the EBM.

I'm not about to tell anyone here that they can't express their opinion, as long it is done in a respectful manner. Kid P has been around here a long time, so it's not like he's just trolling to cause trouble.

The EBM does a good job of bringing rare beers to the Toronto bar scene, but we have high standards around here!

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 12:17 pm

Just one comment about excessive band noise, if you get the chance and are a lover of 60's and 70's rock, check out the Carpet Frogs who play one or two Thursday's each month. Some of Toronto's finest musicians alternate in this great cover band and they do some of the best covers I have ever heard in this city...anything from the Beatles to AC/DC...they take requests and it's amazing how many of them they'll know.

Sac · Post by **Sac** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 5:33 pm

The EBM does a good job in bringing beer to the masses. I wish there were more places like it in Toronto. As a beer bar, we welcome more establishments like EBM to exist because in the long run it helps everyone get the message out about beer. In the case of the products not being available, I can assure you that Smokeless is out of many products day in and day out. This however, is mostly because the products are on back order from the LCBO. We can only buy through the LCBO, so if they are out of stock, so are we. Its frustrating telling customers that we are out of stock on certain beers, but it happens. We are expecting about 75 beers that we have private ordered, but even that seems to take a little longer these days. Its got to the point that we change our menu every two months (before it was changed three times a year). Be patient with establishments which carry many beers on their menu. It's tough right now getting a hold on many products. One other quick point about the service. I've been in this industry now for 22 years and every now and then many events happen which are out of our control. Servers calling in sick, a convention on a Sunday or Monday night decide to all come to Smokeless on that night. We can't always serve customers the way we want to because of certain intangibles in the business. This Friday we served over 300 customers in our tiny place throughout the day, I would be fooling myself to think that we served every and each customer properly. When its busy all we can do is do our best and hope that our customers understand. Luckily at Smokeless, we have a great clientele that know us personally and forgive us a little easier than other establishments.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sac on 2003-08-02 17:35 ]</font>

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:08 am

So I just got home from the Bier Markt with a large group of friends, (Going away party for a friend) and I have to conclude that the comments about it being a good place to turn people on to new things is true. I was driving, so I was limited to a pint of Sgt. Majors (Mmmm... yumm! $7 a pint?!? If even half that went to Perry I'd be pleased but I expect that's not the case

)

I had a Keith's drinker trying Rochefort 8 on my recommendation, and he sought out a bottle of the Chimay Reserve on his own. A female friend started with the Leffe Brune and finished wanting to know how to get a case of the Rochefort!