Bad Pint at Feathers -- Can I send a bad pint back?

Uncle Bobby · Post by **Uncle Bobby** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:33 am

Went to Feathers last Saturday for a very late dinner after a long day (15 hours) of officiating at the Ontario rowing championships. (We call these post-event debriefs, "Technical Meetings".) Good service and very enjoyable, homey English food.

But I ordered a pint of Wellington County from the handpump. (Have I posted elsewhere that it is unavailable? Well I was wrong.) It was slightly off from the first mouthful and got worse as I worked my way down the glass. What was going on:
--Is Wellington's cask-conditioned beer not good anymore?
--Was that particular cask off?
--Was Feathers serving homebrew under the Wellington tap handle? (It certainly tasted like homebrew.)

Did I complain to the server? No. Will it stop me from complaining here? No.

Hopefully the Feathers people read these posts. Or the Wellington people. And if you go, be cautious about what you are being served.

BTW -- what are the laws in Ontario about being served a duff pint? In England the law states that you are allowed to become shirty, and that you can return the pint so long as there is still beer in the glass. Can we do the same here?

"Have a happy day, even if you didn't have a birthday!"

-Uncle Bobby

[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-07-31 10:35 ]

burgermeister · Post by **burgermeister** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 10:41 am

BTW -- what are the laws in Ontario about being served a duff pint?

[ This Message was edited by: Uncle Bobby on 2003-07-31 10:35 ]

Don't know that there are any Laws on the issue, but nothing prevents you from sending it back. I've done it pleanty of times when I've been given a skunky bottled import. I've also sent back draft beer when it doesn't taste right. Customer is always right after all. I usually find the pub is somewhat amused when I do send something back - probably happens very rarely. I would, however, send it back after the first sip or two. Drinking 3/4 of it and trying to send it back wouldn't be cool.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 6:10 pm

By all means send it back. They should be DISCREETLY told that the beer may be off so that they can withdraw it from sale.
The problem with cask beer is that its life expectancy is very short and if the firkin was not served quickly enough, it will go offand turn first to wet cardboard flavours, then to cider-like flavours, finally to vinegar flavours. I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the Wellington beer, it just may have gone off in the cellar.

scott097 · Post by **scott097** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:55 pm

Absolutely send it back. I've had a few bad pints before (one tasted like wet straw!) and I've mentioned it to the server and they've replaced it without a question.

Scott

GregClow · Post by **GregClow** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:57 pm

On 2003-08-01 20:55, scott097 wrote:
Absolutely send it back. I've had a few bad pints before (one tasted like wet straw!) and I've mentioned it to the server and they've replaced it without a question.

I've also seen Scott send back a pint that was a half-inch from being full to get it topped off. He doesn't mess around.

Greg

Publican · Post by **Publican** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 8:16 am

You should definitely asked for a top up if the pint is short. Last weekend when I was in Ann Arbor I was served a short pint of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Considering that it was the pitful 16oz US pint I had to ask for a top up. The Granite serves 18oz pints and while I wish they would serve 20oz pints at least they tell me what I'm getting. If we can't have a full pint law at least there should be a law that forces pubs to tell you how much beer(in ml or oz) you are getting.

[ This Message was edited by: Publican on 2003-08-02 08:18 ]

joey_capps · Post by **joey_capps** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 8:23 am

While I understand what you are saying about a short pint, what bothers even more is when I have a pint filled to the brim with absolutely no head. No thought for aesthetics. No consideration for the aroma.

Joe.

Publican · Post by **Publican** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 12:13 pm

Maybe Pubs should invest in 22oz glasses and then you can get a full pint as well as a head.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Sat Aug 02, 2003 2:36 pm

Joe, you better stay away from the South of England. It is the tradition to pour pints brimful, with little or no head at all. This is for real ale, of course. They do not use sparklers or their taps speifically to avoid cropping up the head. But the pint is definitely full, if you don't get your fingers wet, send it back for a top up.The North of England is the opposite. There they like a creamy head on top of their full pints, so many pubs now have a 22 oz pint to allow for foam atop the full pint.

Uncle Bobby · Post by **Uncle Bobby** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:37 pm

Thanks for all of the replies. The info (and the guidance on etiquette) are appreciated.

As for filling pints in England...

A friend from "oop noorth" was always very militant about his pints, and would eye each pint he received to make certain that it reached the wash line. If it did not, he would show it to the bartender, and ask the bartender if he could still fit a double scotch in his glass of beer. If the barman said, aye, he could, then my buddy would reply, "Fill the bloody thing wi' beer then!"

See you at the Beer Fest. I'm going on Saturday.

Regards,

"Uncle Bobby"

DutchBoy · Post by **DutchBoy** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 6:26 pm

As for filling pints in England...

A friend from "oop noorth" was always very militant about his pints, and would eye each pint he received to make certain that it reached the wash line. If it did not, he would show it to the bartender, and ask the bartender if he could still fit a double scotch in his glass of beer. If the barman said, aye, he could, then my buddy would reply, "Fill the bloody thing wi' beer then!"

And in the Netherlands it's the other way around. A beer needs to have two fingers (horizontal of course!) of foam. If not, you can return the beer. Beer without a nice head is just not accepted.

And England is just next door. Now how complicated a world can be

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Fri May 06, 2005 9:49 pm

DutchBoy wrote:And in the Netherlands it's the other way around. A beer needs to have two fingers (horizontal of course!) of foam. If not, you can return the beer. Beer without a nice head is just not accepted.

Yes, I noticed in Amsterdam they have an allergy to putting very much beer in the glass, returning on my trip from Bavaria!

Torontoblue · Post by **Torontoblue** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:28 pm

PRMason wrote:.The North of England is the opposite. There they like a creamy head on top of their full pints, so many pubs now have a 22 oz pint to allow for foam atop the full pint.

I can tell you that us Northerners (I come from Merseyside) like a full pint with as little head as possible. If it is in a 'pint' glass there should be absolutely no head at all, but if they use lined glasses (which all pubs should use) then a small head to the brim from the line is very welcome. For far too long have pubs gotten away with short measures and they way beer is served here and the USA is disgraceful. I always ask for a 'topup' and 9/10 get the extra beer.

Amd on the point of sending bad beers back; it is good etiquete for the bar to change the pint or offer an alternative. Unfotunately, I have had to do this several times at the Bow & Arrow with their casks, but they have always changed my beer without complaint!

Steve Beaumont · Post by **Steve Beaumont** » Sat May 07, 2005 9:26 am

First, I concur with one and ll that ANY bad beer should be sent back to the bar from whence it came. If you wouldn't put up with a glass of corked wine or sour milk, why should you put up with duff beer? One of my first columns way bck when I wrote for The Star addressed just this subject.

As far as head/pour size goes, I think that it's all relative to the kind of beer being served and the methd of service. Non-cask beer, in my opinion, should always be poured with a collar of foam for both olfactory and aesthetic purposes, which is why every single glass at beerbistro is sized to provide space for two fingers of head minimum. (Brian and I went to great length to source the proper glassware before we opened.) The important issue, as noted by Publican, is that they tell you how much beer you're supposed to be getting, and then give it to you!

GregClow · Post by **GregClow** » Sat May 07, 2005 1:23 pm

Steve Beaumont wrote:If you wouldn't put up with a glass of corked wine or sour milk, why should you put up with duff beer?

Unless, of course, you are drinking in Springfield. Or at Castro's.