New Beer Store Deal

This forum is for discussing current and upcoming LCBO, Beer Store and Grocery Store releases and policies.

Moderators: GregClow, Cass

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Craig
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Postby Craig » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:28 pm

Cass wrote:
Craig wrote:
Cass wrote:
midlife crisis wrote:The whole point of this brilliantly evil plan by TBS is to divide and conquer. I expect it will work.


If they really wanted to divide the market they would allow 5 free listings to importers. So many import brands get turned down from the LCBO nowadays, there would certainly be importers who would do it.


That doesn't win the PR battle though. They need to look like they're a) Canadian and b) helping the little guy.


Oh for sure. But what it would do is help the "we're the best selection in the world" garbage.


I don't think that's the key issue here though. Selection matters to me, but it doesn't seem that important to the government or the masses.
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FUCK!!!!!!

Postby Belgian » Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:41 pm

Commie unions. Government official kickbacks. Justin Bieber!!
In Beerum Veritas
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Postby MatttthewGeorge » Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:34 pm

FEUO wrote:
MatttthewGeorge wrote:
atomeyes wrote:now we know why The Beer Store's announcement was timed accordingly.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/ ... store.html

While Ontario Craft Brewers, the association representing 50 of the smaller producers, has officially panned the offer, at least a dozen microbreweries have already expressed interest in buying in.


i wonder which breweries actually expressed legitimate interest?


Let's attack them with pitchforks and shovels lol

I'm not saying that's what you're saying, but it doesn't take long to find some that are, (ie twitter).

I don't have time.
Who?


Kichesippi said they'd be interested, knives came out.

Mom & Hops tweeting a list of who currently sells at the Beer Store. Silversmith tweeting that list to make a point they're not on it.
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Postby GregClow » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:30 am

MatttthewGeorge wrote:Kichesippi said they'd be interested, knives came out.


To clarify - Kichesippi said they'd be interested in the "5 free listings" offer, but not necessarily the "buy an ownership share" offer.

A lot of the coverage hasn't made it clear that these are two different things. The opportunity to list 2 beers for free in 5 local stores is being offered to ANY brewery in the province that sells less than a million litres a year, regardless of whether they become an "owner" or not.

I could see a number of breweries taking this offer - especially if TBS clarifies what "local stores" means for contract brewers and opens it up to them.

I expect the "ownership" option will have much fewer takers, though. Based on what I've seen, it doesn't offer a lot to the small breweries. The so-called "voice at the table" will always be outnumbered by the Molson, Labatt and Sleeman reps on the board. I really can't see a positive.

And as an aside - I saw an article this week that referred to Molson and Labatt owning 46% each of TBS, and Sleeman owning 8%. Anyone know when it changed from the old 49/49/2 split?
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Postby saints_gambit » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:55 pm

MatttthewGeorge wrote:
FEUO wrote:
MatttthewGeorge wrote:
atomeyes wrote:now we know why The Beer Store's announcement was timed accordingly.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/ ... store.html

While Ontario Craft Brewers, the association representing 50 of the smaller producers, has officially panned the offer, at least a dozen microbreweries have already expressed interest in buying in.


i wonder which breweries actually expressed legitimate interest?


Let's attack them with pitchforks and shovels lol

I'm not saying that's what you're saying, but it doesn't take long to find some that are, (ie twitter).

I don't have time.
Who?


Kichesippi said they'd be interested, knives came out.

Mom & Hops tweeting a list of who currently sells at the Beer Store. Silversmith tweeting that list to make a point they're not on it.


Speaking as a man who wields a knife, I feel entirely justified in openly criticizing anyone stupid enough to sell out the possibility of reform for a one time concession that wouldn't buy a used Diesel Jetta.

The thing is this: If you buy into what The Beer Store is offering, they will use it against your long term interest by preventing further reform. They have a hell of a lot more money than you do as a small brewery and they have PR people who will spin your begrudging involvement into full fledged acceptance.

If there was ever any truth to the idea that craft brewers are a community, this would be a good time to stand together. I mean, at least until we see what Ed Clark is going to do. You will be no worse off in April than you are now if you stand together. Don't immediately throw each other under the bus like a bunch of kindergarteners presented with a half eaten bounty bar. For fuck's sake.
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Postby TheSevenDuffs » Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:59 pm

saints_gambit wrote:
Speaking as a man who wields a knife, I feel entirely justified in openly criticizing anyone stupid enough to sell out the possibility of reform for a one time concession that wouldn't buy a used Diesel Jetta.

The thing is this: If you buy into what The Beer Store is offering, they will use it against your long term interest by preventing further reform. They have a hell of a lot more money than you do as a small brewery and they have PR people who will spin your begrudging involvement into full fledged acceptance.

If there was ever any truth to the idea that craft brewers are a community, this would be a good time to stand together. I mean, at least until we see what Ed Clark is going to do. You will be no worse off in April than you are now if you stand together. Don't immediately throw each other under the bus like a bunch of kindergarteners presented with a half eaten bounty bar. For fuck's sake.
Well said.
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Postby rejtable » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:37 pm

saints_gambit wrote:
Kichesippi said they'd be interested, knives came out.

Mom & Hops tweeting a list of who currently sells at the Beer Store. Silversmith tweeting that list to make a point they're not on it.


Speaking as a man who wields a knife, I feel entirely justified in openly criticizing anyone stupid enough to sell out the possibility of reform for a one time concession that wouldn't buy a used Diesel Jetta.

The thing is this: If you buy into what The Beer Store is offering, they will use it against your long term interest by preventing further reform. They have a hell of a lot more money than you do as a small brewery and they have PR people who will spin your begrudging involvement into full fledged acceptance.

If there was ever any truth to the idea that craft brewers are a community, this would be a good time to stand together. I mean, at least until we see what Ed Clark is going to do. You will be no worse off in April than you are now if you stand together. Don't immediately throw each other under the bus like a bunch of kindergarteners presented with a half eaten bounty bar. For fuck's sake.
I doubt kich was intentionally trying to throw anyone under the bus. To me their intial response came off as just off the cuff, not thought through. Sounded like they heard "free shelf space" and said "hell yeah!". I saw your tweet exchange with them and it maybe would have been better had they more forcibly rejected the idea with some time to reflect,. but whatever.
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Postby saints_gambit » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:04 pm

rejtable wrote:
saints_gambit wrote:
Kichesippi said they'd be interested, knives came out.

Mom & Hops tweeting a list of who currently sells at the Beer Store. Silversmith tweeting that list to make a point they're not on it.


Speaking as a man who wields a knife, I feel entirely justified in openly criticizing anyone stupid enough to sell out the possibility of reform for a one time concession that wouldn't buy a used Diesel Jetta.

The thing is this: If you buy into what The Beer Store is offering, they will use it against your long term interest by preventing further reform. They have a hell of a lot more money than you do as a small brewery and they have PR people who will spin your begrudging involvement into full fledged acceptance.

If there was ever any truth to the idea that craft brewers are a community, this would be a good time to stand together. I mean, at least until we see what Ed Clark is going to do. You will be no worse off in April than you are now if you stand together. Don't immediately throw each other under the bus like a bunch of kindergarteners presented with a half eaten bounty bar. For fuck's sake.
I doubt kich was intentionally trying to throw anyone under the bus. To me their intial response came off as just off the cuff, not thought through. Sounded like they heard "free shelf space" and said "hell yeah!". I saw your tweet exchange with them and it maybe would have been better had they more forcibly rejected the idea with some time to reflect,. but whatever.


Yes, and the next day The Beer Store used their positive response to attempt to snow the public. You've got to cut off the PR team's oxygen.
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Postby rejtable » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:25 pm

No disagreement. But based on that snap survey pretty clear TBS PR team can manufacture their own oxygen on demand.
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Postby atomeyes » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:50 am

rejtable wrote:No disagreement. But based on that snap survey pretty clear TBS PR team can manufacture their own oxygen on demand.


if one had half a brain, you avoid opining or giving sound bites that would make your enemy sound remotely positive.
politicians do this all the time.
and this battle's political.

here's the thing: i am not a brewer, nor do i own a brewery. when TBS's 7 AM announcement (that's odd...) came out, i read it over and had an immediate reaction to the limited info released. i thought that the news would only benefit small-town breweries (how many are there? Sam at Sawdust would likely benefit from the 5 TBS rule. otherwise, none of the Toronto or Ottawa breweries would benefit). the seat on the board BS is obvious to anyone who's ever been involved in owning a corporation. it's an absolute joke. and if you're a Toronto brewery, odds are that you have more than 2 SKUs that you want sold, and that buying your beer in TBS and knowing that you'll never get prominent shelf space nor never been on their Big Ten wall will only decrease visits to your brewery, where people would have access to more than 2 SKUs.

the only positive is increased repeated exposure to your beer, which may increase purchases. but do people go to TBS to learn about new beer or to pick up a 24 of Wildcat? likely the latter.

any brewery that said that there was something positive to the announcement either knows something that the rest of us don't know or really has zero idea how to a) run a successful business b) negotiate
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Postby Rob Creighton » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:41 pm

Among the 24 craft breweries already in the TBS are a number of very small breweries like Neustadt & Hockley.

I would love to have a copy of the call made by Val at Neustadt the moment she heard about the offer asking for her $6500.00 back. Classic :lol:
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Postby saints_gambit » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:49 pm

Rob Creighton wrote:Among the 24 craft breweries already in the TBS are a number of very small breweries like Neustadt & Hockley.

I would love to have a copy of the call made by Val at Neustadt the moment she heard about the offer asking for her $6500.00 back. Classic :lol:


That's awesome.
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Craig
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Postby Craig » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:02 pm

Anonymous polling of Ontario craft brewers reaction to the deal:

http://www.momandhops.ca/results-ontari ... hip-offer/

Unsurprisingly, not in favour.
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Postby lister » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:14 pm

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Postby atomeyes » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:40 pm


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