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Beer in Grocery Stores

This forum is for discussing everything beer retail: LCBO, Beer Store, Grocery Stores and Indie Stores.

Moderators: Craig, Cass

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StevenThrasher
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:50 pm
Location: Claremont

Post by StevenThrasher »

Ceecee wrote:450 grocery stores and...a new tax! Yay?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e23985721/
Best line in that article is this:

Under a new agreement with the province [The Beer Store] will have to give small brewers 20 per cent of shelf space in the stores, up from 7 per cent now.

Even as cynical as we all are this should at least improve the Beer Store for us. This also may have greater impact outside of the GTA where the LCBO doesn't carry as many craft beers.

cfrancis
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Post by cfrancis »

lister wrote:
cfrancis wrote:Sam Adams is now in Quebec in a big way as is Beau's. You better believe Beau's is talking to Costco about getting listed.
I haven't been to Montreal for about 4-5 years. Has the draft selection at bars changed at all or is it still all macros and Quebec craft? For my first visit to Montreal years before that I was quite disappointed to not find any NY, Vermont, Maine, Mass., beers there, both on draft and in bottles.
It still is very limited in Quebec. Stores can only sell beer that is "brewed in Quebec" or has ties to quebec. So all of Inbev qualifies because of Labatt being there. Miller Coors is linked through Molson. Sapporo is linked through Unibroue, etc.

Anything outside has to go through SAQ which is horrendous from what I'm told. Now there are groups that do orders for Belgian/ US. Someone with more expertise can speak to this. Ian?

cfrancis
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Post by cfrancis »

Now I missed this part

Small brewers across Ontario will also be allowed to sell beer on-site at all their locations, no matter how small, which was previously restricted

Some clarification is needed, do they have to brew at the same location? If not, this is a small win. Would have loved to see cross retail allowed as well so that a Beau's store could carry GLB, Bellwoods, etc.

If it's brewery specific it's not as cool but it would be a baby step.

A
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Post by A »

StevenThrasher wrote:
Ceecee wrote:450 grocery stores and...a new tax! Yay?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e23985721/
Best line in that article is this:

Under a new agreement with the province [The Beer Store] will have to give small brewers 20 per cent of shelf space in the stores, up from 7 per cent now.

Even as cynical as we all are this should at least improve the Beer Store for us. This also may have greater impact outside of the GTA where the LCBO doesn't carry as many craft beers.
Why? The problem now isn't that the Beer Store won't list craft beers or has capped the amount of shelf space - the problem is that its insanely expensive to list. There is some lip service in the announcement as to reducing the fees for small brewers, but who knows what that will actually mean and if it will make any difference. Based on how weak the rest of the announcement is I'm not holding my breath.
Small brewers across Ontario will also be allowed to sell beer on-site at all their locations, no matter how small, which was previously restricted
Sell beer, or sell *their own beer*? If the former - big win. I would bet 100:1 against it being the former.
Last edited by A on Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Craig
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Post by Craig »

A wrote:
StevenThrasher wrote:
Ceecee wrote:450 grocery stores and...a new tax! Yay?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e23985721/
Best line in that article is this:

Under a new agreement with the province [The Beer Store] will have to give small brewers 20 per cent of shelf space in the stores, up from 7 per cent now.

Even as cynical as we all are this should at least improve the Beer Store for us. This also may have greater impact outside of the GTA where the LCBO doesn't carry as many craft beers.
Why? The problem now isn't that the Beer Store won't list craft beers or has capped the amount of shelf space - the problem is that its insanely expensive to list. There is some lip service in the announcement as to reducing the fees for small brewers, but who knows what that will actually mean and if it will make any difference. Based on how weak the rest of the announcement is I'm not holding my breath.
Me neither, but the concept of scaling listing fees to the size of the brewer is a good one imo. It just depends on how aggressive the scale is.

A
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Post by A »

It will be as aggressive as the beer store lobbyists allow it to be :)

StevenThrasher
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:50 pm
Location: Claremont

Post by StevenThrasher »

A wrote:Why? The problem now isn't that the Beer Store won't list craft beers or has capped the amount of shelf space - the problem is that its insanely expensive to list. There is some lip service in the announcement as to reducing the fees for small brewers, but who knows what that will actually mean and if it will make any difference. Based on how weak the rest of the announcement is I'm not holding my breath.
The sentence should mean there has to be 20% non-macro brews.

Under a new agreement with the province [The Beer Store] will have to give small brewers 20 per cent of shelf space in the stores, up from 7 per cent now.

Now this could mean by volume which wouldn't do much good, or it could mean a great more selection of craft brews. The words "have to give" mean the beer store has to deal with it. The LCBO has a fair bit more selection, this could move to the Beer Store.

We all have to wait I guess and see what happens, but I don't think that sentence could be interpreted any other way really.
Of course we are talking about politicians so who knows...

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Bobsy
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Post by Bobsy »

An extra point of access sounds like a great idea to me, though I expect it will be a watered down version of what it should be. Already the mention of a separately enclosed area infuriates me. It smacks of puritanism and treating citizens as children.

Still, if I can pick up a decent sixer to drink at the same time as getting my groceries I can see that cutting down my visits to the LCBO drastically.

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Bobsy
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Post by Bobsy »

Oh... and two years to get this in place in just 150 of 450 stores smacks of bureaucracy.

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Belgian
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Post by Belgian »

First thought is 'who designed this plan?' Whole thing in the way its handled stinks of an opportunity to bring in additional stiff & byzantine regulations, instead of trying to relax and simplify the extremely simple act of selling beer to grown ups. Oh well that figures, Onterrible.

'Why a new tax?' I think that's on us, with no benefit TO us - they want to make the same exorbitant profits as before while adding on all this useless stupid new beaurocracy, and WE pay the costs of the added-on beaurocracy. Yes, regulatory nightmares are expensively-run bad dreams.

Currently I'm wondering if the recently much-improved LCBO will continue to develop as an actual (not pretend) beer retailer, or in terms of selection will it instead suffer - will some regulatory clusterf*ck or dumb decision mess up the progress we've gained the last 5 or so years.
In Beerum Veritas

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JerCraigs
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Location: Toronto

Post by JerCraigs »

A wrote:
Small brewers across Ontario will also be allowed to sell beer on-site at all their locations, no matter how small, which was previously restricted
Sell beer, or sell *their own beer*? If the former - big win. I would bet 100:1 against it being the former.
So if there are no restrictions I can open a "brewery" location downtown with a pilot system and sell beer! Unless it can only sell beer brewed at that location, which sort of undermines the point.

atomeyes
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Post by atomeyes »

there is so much bullshit in today's announcement. the only hope - which is typical of Ontario - is that Wynne doesn't lie (hah) and says that this is the first step in reform. but the reform will take a decade if we move at this snail's pace.

in Ontario, the lobbyists win. you pay to play.
grocery (read: Loblaws) won.
The Beer Store still wins.
craft beer *maybe* does a bit better, but not really.
consumers don't really win.

Spab
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:11 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Spab »

A wrote:
StevenThrasher wrote:
Ceecee wrote:
Sell beer, or sell *their own beer*? If the former - big win. I would bet 100:1 against it being the former.
It's the latter - see final recommendation 7 on page 48 of the report: " The Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario (AGCO) should allow brewers with two production facilities to have an on-site retail store at each facility for the sale of their products only, regardless of the production size of their facilities.

BakaGaijin
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:41 pm
Location: Burlington

Post by BakaGaijin »

atomeyes wrote:there is so much bullshit in today's announcement. the only hope - which is typical of Ontario - is that Wynne doesn't lie (hah) and says that this is the first step in reform. but the reform will take a decade if we move at this snail's pace.

in Ontario, the lobbyists win. you pay to play.
grocery (read: Loblaws) won.
The Beer Store still wins.
craft beer *maybe* does a bit better, but not really.
consumers don't really win.
I agree with this. Why do I need more retail outlets selling the same limited selection at the same price as everywhere else?!? I already drive past 10 LCBO and 10 Beer Stores every single day. Beer in a grocery is of no use to me.

The online retail system will be good for people that live in rural places. Might even mean that online inventory is updated in real time. I wonder if they'll use the same vendor that recently revamped their website?!? Lol

They all mentioned that some LCBO's will have craft beer boutiques. This is an opportunity if done correctly. However, I'm not holding my breath. Probably get the same tired agents to bring in the same tired beers.
Last edited by BakaGaijin on Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Lecocq
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:38 am
Location: Tilbury, ON

Post by Lecocq »

20% of craft brews at a TBS should be a quite noticeable change. I wonder if it is the same breakdown for the grocery stores as well? Honestly with the hoops that the grocery stores will need to go through to get the beer in their stores, they are going to want immediate return for their investment. Truthfully, it is going to take them alot longer to see that with craft 6's as opposed to 6's of Blue and Coors Light. I just don't foresee a "beer eutopia" in these grocery stores!

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