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Beer in Grocery Stores

This forum is for discussing everything beer retail: LCBO, Beer Store, Grocery Stores and Indie Stores.

Moderators: Craig, Cass

Lukie
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:16 am

Post by Lukie »

When is this happening again? It's been over four months now since the pompous Liberal announcement and my local Walmart's shelves are still bereft of anything higher than .05%alc/vol.

atomeyes
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Post by atomeyes »

Lukie wrote:When is this happening again? It's been over four months now since the pompous Liberal announcement and my local Walmart's shelves are still bereft of anything higher than .05%alc/vol.
pretty sure the govt announced last week that it will not be happening in 2015. these things take time, people! it's not as simple as putting glass bottles on shelves. wait...it pretty much is.

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cratez
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Post by cratez »

atomeyes wrote: pretty sure the govt announced last week that it will not be happening in 2015. these things take time, people! it's not as simple as putting glass bottles on shelves. wait...it pretty much is.
According to the Toronto Star, "the first grocery stores will begin peddling suds — and competing with the privately owned Beer Store chain — by this Christmas."
Last edited by cratez on Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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darmokandjalad
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Post by darmokandjalad »

cratez wrote:But no explanation from the government as to why we have to wait another five months for this to happen.
It shouldn't need to be explained. You are dealing with a big, fat, bloated bureaucracy - one that has been receiving money for decades from outside interests who are perfectly happy with the status quo.

It takes them a minimum of 6 months to do anything, because there are thousands of people that need to shuffle paper around and justify their positions before they will allow any progress to be made. And yes, that reality is stupid, but that's reality for you.

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cratez
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Post by cratez »

darmokandjalad wrote: It shouldn't need to be explained. You are dealing with a big, fat, bloated bureaucracy - one that has been receiving money for decades from outside interests who are perfectly happy with the status quo.

It takes them a minimum of 6 months to do anything, because there are thousands of people that need to shuffle paper around and justify their positions before they will allow any progress to be made. And yes, that reality is stupid, but that's reality for you.
Yeah, I'm not as cynical as you are, so I do think it's incumbent upon the government to explain why it will take all of 2015 to put beer bottles on shelves. Distribution is obviously an issue but, much like Metro can decide which brands of ketchup it will stock and how it will obtain those brands, it's something that should be left to brewers and grocers to deal with, not the government. I suspect the Libs' decision to limit the number of stores that can sell beer is prolonging things, among other issues.
"Bar people do not live as long as vegan joggers. However, they have more fun." - Bruce Elliott

jburley2
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Post by jburley2 »

I don't really know why anyone cares about beer coming to groceries. They've said that they need to order through LCBO so the selection will be identical. Apparently the hours aren't going to be any different either. The only people that are really going to benefit from this are the people located in areas that don't have an LCBO already but have a grocery store. And their grocery store happens to be one of the 150 groceries that are getting beer sales.

Masterplan
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Post by Masterplan »

jburley2 wrote:I don't really know why anyone cares about beer coming to groceries. They've said that they need to order through LCBO so the selection will be identical. Apparently the hours aren't going to be any different either. The only people that are really going to benefit from this are the people located in areas that don't have an LCBO already but have a grocery store. And their grocery store happens to be one of the 150 groceries that are getting beer sales.
It may also benefit non Toronto people, that have grocery stores interested bringing in more sought after products that don't often make it out of the GTA.

jburley2
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Post by jburley2 »

Yeah you're right, that is a possibility. I'm still pretty pessimistic about it, speaking as someone that lives non-GTA. IMO There's two main reasons the better beer selection won't make it to our local grocery stores. 1. The LCBO still controls the distribution so they'll still hold back those highly sought after releases for the GTA like they do now. 2. The local market forces that encourage your local LCBO to not carry a wide range of good beer (i.e. small amount of people seeking it out) will still apply to the grocery store. If anything I think the grocery stores will be more conservative in the ordering because they have a shareholders to answer to, they'll be ordering stuff they can move quickly.

All in all, the government allowing beer sales in grocery stores was effective in making them look good to the public & settle down the convenience store beer sale lobby while still maintaining the same system that's limited beer selection in the past.

But who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised when this all gets going.

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Belgian
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Post by Belgian »

darmokandjalad wrote:[...You are dealing with a big, fat, bloated bureaucracy - one that has been receiving money for decades from outside interests who are perfectly happy with the status quo.

It takes them a minimum of 6 months to do anything, because there are thousands of people that need to shuffle paper around and justify their positions before they will allow any progress to be made...
A hilarious picture of what's wrong with Onterrible. Imagine the effect on our lives if we were to 'cut out the deadwood' of useless positions and revise/update every policy to make sense?

Right, we DID hire outside consultancy for that, they said privatize. Oligarchy said they don't feel ready for that.

Oligarchy blows.
In Beerum Veritas

napoleon
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Post by napoleon »

Well the only way to spin this positively is to look at this way: it's essentially a chink in the armour of the LCBO and Beer Store. Anything that reduces the monopoly at all should be viewed positively, whether it changes anything in actuality right away or not.

sprague11
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Post by sprague11 »

Something must be in the works soon, OPSEU's ads attacking the move are all over local radio here.
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Kel Varnsen
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Post by Kel Varnsen »

jburley2 wrote:Yeah you're right, that is a possibility. I'm still pretty pessimistic about it, speaking as someone that lives non-GTA. IMO There's two main reasons the better beer selection won't make it to our local grocery stores. 1. The LCBO still controls the distribution so they'll still hold back those highly sought after releases for the GTA like they do now. 2. The local market forces that encourage your local LCBO to not carry a wide range of good beer (i.e. small amount of people seeking it out) will still apply to the grocery store. If anything I think the grocery stores will be more conservative in the ordering because they have a shareholders to answer to, they'll be ordering stuff they can move quickly.
If the LCBO controls distribution does that mean it will only be beers that actually make it into the LCBO that show up in grocery stores. I am just thinking about all those stories you read about brewers that submit beers to be listed at the LCBO, but then for whatever reason don't get picked up. Could there be a situation where the LCBO would say "we won't carry those beers, but we will happily distribute them to an store that wants to purchase the brewery's minimum order". Because making it into the LCBO distribution system seems a lot different than actually making it onto a store shelf.

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Craig
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Post by Craig »

Kel Varnsen wrote:
jburley2 wrote:Yeah you're right, that is a possibility. I'm still pretty pessimistic about it, speaking as someone that lives non-GTA. IMO There's two main reasons the better beer selection won't make it to our local grocery stores. 1. The LCBO still controls the distribution so they'll still hold back those highly sought after releases for the GTA like they do now. 2. The local market forces that encourage your local LCBO to not carry a wide range of good beer (i.e. small amount of people seeking it out) will still apply to the grocery store. If anything I think the grocery stores will be more conservative in the ordering because they have a shareholders to answer to, they'll be ordering stuff they can move quickly.
If the LCBO controls distribution does that mean it will only be beers that actually make it into the LCBO that show up in grocery stores. I am just thinking about all those stories you read about brewers that submit beers to be listed at the LCBO, but then for whatever reason don't get picked up. Could there be a situation where the LCBO would say "we won't carry those beers, but we will happily distribute them to an store that wants to purchase the brewery's minimum order". Because making it into the LCBO distribution system seems a lot different than actually making it onto a store shelf.

Well, the LCBO already has a system in place for private orders where the products go through the LCBO but never touch shelves. I don't see why grocery stores couldn't do the same thing, but given that this is the LCBO we're talking about, who knows?

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ErkLR
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Post by ErkLR »

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this (or I missed it in another thread, sorry. This seems like the place for it), but there's some info on this issue on Ben's Beer Blog: http://bensbeerblog.com/2015/09/08/onta ... raft-beer/
Some details about beer in grocery stores

We will likely see beer on grocery store shelves in the next 18 months
The province still hasn’t decided how to auction off licenses to sell beer in a way that is fair to small grocers
At least one grocery store chain [Farm Boy - Erk] has stated they’d like to sell “100% craft beer.”
If you have fears that bigger brewers are going to be able to buy shelf space, continue to be scared of that very real possibility
Brewers will be allowed to do direct-to-store delivery
Some good news, some bad news, always slow news when dealing with a giant bureaucracy.

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saints_gambit
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Post by saints_gambit »

ErkLR wrote: Some good news, some bad news, always slow news when dealing with a giant bureaucracy.
It's always a mixture of effects. If they had rushed it to immediate conclusion people would be complaining because the only people with the volume to handle the additional outlets are established market players. This gives the little guys some time to plan. Honestly, if we get more players in the grocery side, it's going to be a lot better for everyone. If it were all Loblaw's they'd push their own brand stuff. I'm confident Metro will split theirs craft/big guys like they do in Quebec. Sobeys is sort of a wild card, but you've got to figure anyone who's willing to stock four kinds of chia seed pudding is going to lean craft. Getting Farm Boy and Whole Foods and Longo's etc in on the right terms is going to help craft's volume faster even with a couple months of delay. If that goes up small breweries influence policy more, which will help the eventual rollout gather speed.

The initial rollout will be fraught with problems. I can guarantee we will all disagree about the selection. The end result is going to be better beer in more hands and that means long term results.
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