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saints_gambit wrote:...Apologies if I get a little stroppy about it. It's a huge industry and societal change whose most frequent criticism is that it's not working perfectly a month in...
No apologies needed. I think there was, for decades, a lot of pent-up anger at the "Nanny State" of Ontario, most recently targeted at Dear Leader Wynne. Most of us were entirely fed up with a system that ignored everything but its perceived controllers ( a combination of the macro-brewery cartel and the stale-dated moral finger-wagging of "government" telling us how to behave). Impatience for change has its roots, and I think we can forgive the criticism to some degree.
Over time, the baby-steps changes brought in will become the new normal. Hopefully we'll see even more change that benefits the consumer/public.
I think we'd all do well to remember that even the largest craft brewers are having serious trouble keeping up with demand for the grocery chains. Imagine what would have happened if they'd decided that you could sell beer everywhere. The situation would be this: Craft brewers completely overwhelmed, large brewers with existing supply chains able to get on shelves everywhere and the domination that people assumed would happen with grocery stores would have actually happened. The grocery store thing is taking advantage of market momentum.
saints_gambit wrote:...Imagine what would have happened if they'd decided that you could sell beer everywhere. The situation would be this: Craft brewers completely overwhelmed, large brewers with existing supply chains able to get on shelves everywhere and the domination that people assumed would happen with grocery stores would have actually happened. The grocery store thing is taking advantage of market momentum.
Fascinating. So in that scenario we see the essential elements of craft beer: (small-scale production; local/hyper-local sensibility from some of the producers; taste leaders; market drivers) crashing into the current model of modern-era distribution and sales: scaled-up supply chains; uniformity with some brand differentiation; quick adoption of social trends (locavore, "know your farmer", etc.)
So we can now see yet another reason why the multi-national brewers are buying the smaller-scale producers. Mill Street,for example, is getting an almost immediate expansion in capacity in the east end of Toronto, and Labatt (AB InBev) gets its newly-purchased "craft brewery" products on grocery shelves, in volume.
saints_gambit wrote:...Imagine what would have happened if they'd decided that you could sell beer everywhere. The situation would be this: Craft brewers completely overwhelmed, large brewers with existing supply chains able to get on shelves everywhere and the domination that people assumed would happen with grocery stores would have actually happened. The grocery store thing is taking advantage of market momentum.
Fascinating. So in that scenario we see the essential elements of craft beer: (small-scale production; local/hyper-local sensibility from some of the producers; taste leaders; market drivers) crashing into the current model of modern-era distribution and sales: scaled-up supply chains; uniformity with some brand differentiation; quick adoption of social trends (locavore, "know your farmer", etc.)
So we can now see yet another reason why the multi-national brewers are buying the smaller-scale producers. Mill Street,for example, is getting an almost immediate expansion in capacity in the east end of Toronto, and Labatt (AB InBev) gets its newly-purchased "craft brewery" products on grocery shelves, in volume.
saints_gambit wrote:...Imagine what would have happened if they'd decided that you could sell beer everywhere. The situation would be this: Craft brewers completely overwhelmed, large brewers with existing supply chains able to get on shelves everywhere and the domination that people assumed would happen with grocery stores would have actually happened. The grocery store thing is taking advantage of market momentum.
Fascinating. So in that scenario we see the essential elements of craft beer: (small-scale production; local/hyper-local sensibility from some of the producers; taste leaders; market drivers) crashing into the current model of modern-era distribution and sales: scaled-up supply chains; uniformity with some brand differentiation; quick adoption of social trends (locavore, "know your farmer", etc.)
So we can now see yet another reason why the multi-national brewers are buying the smaller-scale producers. Mill Street,for example, is getting an almost immediate expansion in capacity in the east end of Toronto, and Labatt (AB InBev) gets its newly-purchased "craft brewery" products on grocery shelves, in volume.
Craft breweries bought by conglomerates do not qualify as 'craft' as per grocery store craft beer allocation requirements.
BakaGaijin wrote:Craft breweries bought by conglomerates do not qualify as 'craft' as per grocery store craft beer allocation requirements.
Interesting. Is there a website where these requirements are published? Thanks.
Sorry, I don't recall where I read that.
It might be published somewhere on this site if you want to dig through other threads. Might be posted somewhere on Bens Beer Blog as well. I'm sure the Google machine can help you find it.
saints_gambit wrote:...Imagine what would have happened if they'd decided that you could sell beer everywhere. The situation would be this: Craft brewers completely overwhelmed, large brewers with existing supply chains able to get on shelves everywhere and the domination that people assumed would happen with grocery stores would have actually happened. The grocery store thing is taking advantage of market momentum.
Fascinating. So in that scenario we see the essential elements of craft beer: (small-scale production; local/hyper-local sensibility from some of the producers; taste leaders; market drivers) crashing into the current model of modern-era distribution and sales: scaled-up supply chains; uniformity with some brand differentiation; quick adoption of social trends (locavore, "know your farmer", etc.)
So we can now see yet another reason why the multi-national brewers are buying the smaller-scale producers. Mill Street,for example, is getting an almost immediate expansion in capacity in the east end of Toronto, and Labatt (AB InBev) gets its newly-purchased "craft brewery" products on grocery shelves, in volume.
Craft breweries bought by conglomerates do not qualify as 'craft' as per grocery store craft beer allocation requirements.
The nomenclature is important here. Ontario doesn't recognize "craft". Ontario recognizes "small brewers" in their legal framework.
In an odd way, Mill Street getting bought is good for everyone. It takes them out of the "small brewers" allocation and keeps the large international brands at bay because shelf space is finite. Of course, some people will be unaware that Mill Street was purchased. Probably the vast majority don't know what "craft" is or isn't. However, if they're willing to drink Mill Street, they'll be willing to drink other craft.
saints_gambit wrote:The nomenclature is important here. Ontario doesn't recognize "craft". Ontario recognizes "small brewers" in their legal framework.
Interesting. For reasons I can't explain, I've never been keen on the term "craft beer". Back in the 80s and 90s, we spoke of "micro-breweries". "Small brewers" is actually simple and I think conveys quite well what is meant.
saints_gambit wrote:The nomenclature is important here. Ontario doesn't recognize "craft". Ontario recognizes "small brewers" in their legal framework.
Interesting. For reasons I can't explain, I've never been keen on the term "craft beer". Back in the 80s and 90s, we spoke of "micro-breweries". "Small brewers" is actually simple and I think conveys quite well what is meant.
It was a good genre descriptor until it started including anyone independent. The problem is that it's almost completely legally unenforceable because it's so vague.
saints_gambit wrote:It was a good genre descriptor until it started including anyone independent. The problem is that it's almost completely legally unenforceable because it's so vague.
From Canadian Beer News, 23/9/15
"At least 20% of shelf space in all grocery stores, LCBOs and Beer Stores will be dedicated to beer from small breweries – both from Ontario and elsewhere – with “small” defined as those that brew less than 4.6 million six-packs a year"
zane9 wrote:
"At least 20% of shelf space in all grocery stores, LCBOs and Beer Stores will be dedicated to beer from small breweries – both from Ontario and elsewhere – with “small” defined as those that brew less than 4.6 million six-packs a year"
That seems like a big number, but not sure I have an intuition for that. Can anyone give me a since of which brewers fall on either side of that line? I worry that's set so high that Mill Street qualifies as "small"
4.6 million six packs is 4.6*6*0.355 = 9.798 million litres a year. Which is basically 100,000 hectolitres. How big is that, in terms of breweries? It's hard to say, since so few publish their production numbers, but that's 1/4 the OCB maximum to be considered a craft brewer.
Iirc, most craft brewers in Ontario cap out around 75k HL, because there's a tax break right around there that doesn't make it worth it to get any bigger:
The maximum tax credit available to an eligible small brewer is $2,499,500 for non‑draft beer and $1,824,500 for draft beer on eligible sales exceeding 50,000hL and up to and including 75,000hL. The tax credit is subject to a phase‑out once eligible sales exceed 75,000hL and is fully eliminated when eligible sales exceed 150,000hL in the sales year.
Don't know if this was posted elsewhere, I was in my local large food store that had been granted the ability to sell beer in Hamilton. They have a sort of a food court area where you can get any type of Asian, Italian food , coffee and a pastry etc and you can eat in a number of booths they have there. Right before you enter this area there is a sign "Absolutely no consuming of alcoholic beverages on the premises" .
Ukie wrote:Don't know if this was posted elsewhere, I was in my local large food store that had been granted the ability to sell beer in Hamilton. They have a sort of a food court area where you can get any type of Asian, Italian food , coffee and a pastry etc and you can eat in a number of booths they have there. Right before you enter this area there is a sign "Absolutely no consuming of alcoholic beverages on the premises" .
Classic
Makes sense, you can't go into the lcbo and down a drink after purchasing it. Now if any of those places offered alcohol (or have their liquor license) then it's a different story.
Ukie wrote:Don't know if this was posted elsewhere, I was in my local large food store that had been granted the ability to sell beer in Hamilton. They have a sort of a food court area where you can get any type of Asian, Italian food , coffee and a pastry etc and you can eat in a number of booths they have there. Right before you enter this area there is a sign "Absolutely no consuming of alcoholic beverages on the premises" .
Classic
Makes sense, you can't go into the lcbo and down a drink after purchasing it. Now if any of those places offered alcohol (or have their liquor license) then it's a different story.
This relates to the issue of allowing bars to sell packaged beer for take home consumption. I'm curious what the historical or current rationale is for keeping sales for on-site consumption and take-home completely separate.
