Beer in Grocery Stores

Ceecee · Post by **Ceecee** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:42 pm

450 grocery stores and...a new tax! Yay?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e23985721/

cfrancis · Post by **cfrancis** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:57 pm

That's not really even a step. Grocery stores yes, but max a 6 pack.... really? Costco might not even get involved at that level.

And another tax..... looks like I'm still buying in Quebec.

sprague11 · Post by **sprague11** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:00 pm

That was a bit of a letdown, but considering the government...

Here's hoping our dollar shoots back up toward parity, fidning far better things to buy online, and looks like that will contunie for the forseeable future.

A · Post by A » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:20 pm

A *bit* of a letdown? Its a fucking tax grab announcement, no more no less. Enjoy your 20% of shelf space at the back of the store, craft beers!

Sure will be nice to grab a growler of Molson at the LCBO though </SARCASM>

spinrsx · Post by **spinrsx** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:35 pm

some more info here:

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.h ... ario-booze

A · Post by A » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:39 pm

I love this:

Bars and restaurants have long complained the Beer Store charged them more than the retail price for bottles, and they were not allowed to buy their beer like a consumer. About 9,000 small pubs and restaurants (who sell fewer than 250 24-packs of beer a year) will now pay the same price as consumers.

If your pub is selling less than ~18 beers per day, you are a shitty shitty pub

lister · Post by **lister** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:42 pm

From that National Post link:

- LCBO online retail

The LCBO will launch a new online store that will offer consumers more choice, especially those who don’t live near one of the large, big-box style LCBO stores with massive spirit and wine offerings. It will offer both in-store and home delivery.

I hope that's not just the usual stuff available in store but includes private orders too. Doubt it but crossing fingers.

cfrancis · Post by **cfrancis** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:47 pm

It's going to be interesting how the growlers is going to work. I can't see the LCBO staff filling on site. It will probably be the brewery providing pre-filled growlers.

So do these growlers have to be tested? And sit in a warehouse for a couple of weeks? And then the beer is horrendous by the time it gets to market?

How can they screw this up so badly?

A · Post by A » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:51 pm

Yeah, no kidding. The whole *point* of a growler is that you have a pint of beer you like at a pub, you fill a growler to take home with you.

selling them from the LCBO defeats the entire purpose - those kegs are going to sit, get stale, and taste like crap.

atomeyes · Post by **atomeyes** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:54 pm

cfrancis wrote:That's not really even a step. Grocery stores yes, but max a 6 pack.... really? Costco might not even get involved at that level.

why do people keep on talking about Costco like it's a godsend?
is Costco ever good for the small guy?
did you expect Bellwoods and GLB's Tank Ten series to be on sale at Costco?

cfrancis · Post by **cfrancis** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:45 pm

atomeyes wrote:
cfrancis wrote:That's not really even a step. Grocery stores yes, but max a 6 pack.... really? Costco might not even get involved at that level.
why do people keep on talking about Costco like it's a godsend?
is Costco ever good for the small guy?
did you expect Bellwoods and GLB's Tank Ten series to be on sale at Costco?

Costco is guidepost for me to the system being opened up. Because they are such a big player.

It's facetious to think that the craft industry is going to open up without grocery stores getting involved in a big way. We are a long way off of having small craft specific stores in Ontario and it seems that it will stay that way.

Costco in Quebec is now selling Unibroue/Brasseurs RJ some full time, some with specific flash sales. While bringing in special one offs at Christmas.

Sam Adams is now in Quebec in a big way as is Beau's. You better believe Beau's is talking to Costco about getting listed.

We all here have a utopia idea of how we want alcohol sold in Ontario, but there is fantasy and feasibility. We need baby steps towards the fantasy and I don't know if this is really a baby step.

Limiting grocery stores ie Loblaws to only 6packs is stupid. If I'm Loblaws, I have to section off a part of my store so that it can keep the same hours as the Beer Store, I need to train my employees in essentially smart serve to work in that area and the best margin that I make is on a 6 pack where chances are there is a beer store a block or two away that will sell a 24 at a better per ml rate. I don't see Loblaws terribly interested in getting involved in this for much. I see another little store like wine rack opening, where it will be 60-70% macro 6 packs because realistically that is still the main seller and then one small section which will have craft sixers what will look a lot like an LCBO cooler but likely not temperature controlled.

I've already said how I don't think the growler system will work with the LCBO. I can imagine LCBO employees reading this and thinking about how the hell they are going to handle it in the stores when the majority already don't know squat about craft beer. I haven't even thought about how the growler return is going to work.....

Online sounds interesting, it would be nice if it opens up the ability to order stuff from Toronto for us in Ottawa and get it brought into a local LCBO without having to deal with an LCBO employee that either doesn't know how to do an inter store transfer or couldn't give a crap to do one for me.

And for all of this added "convenience" we get an additional markup on beer that will be phased in.

I'm just saying, I'm less than impressed with this "news"

lister · Post by **lister** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:47 pm

atomeyes wrote:why do people keep on talking about Costco like it's a godsend?

Some people find it useful? *shrug*

is Costco ever good for the small guy?

In my experience no. I did a year membership and it was annoying having to drive to the closest one at Downsview. Plus it was difficult for two people to eat the product size offerings. I dropped the membership and now piggyback off of relatives and friends for certain select things.

did you expect Bellwoods and GLB's Tank Ten series to be on sale at Costco?

No but the usual suspects of the craft bigger boys should be there I think.

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:47 pm

Beer must be sold from a special, closed-off area. Only in Ontario. Beer on the regular shelves of a grocery store far too radical to contemplate. I guess MADD and their ilk must be placated.

Stores must keep same hours as TBS. Sigh. So much for convenience.

lister · Post by **lister** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:52 pm

cfrancis wrote:Sam Adams is now in Quebec in a big way as is Beau's. You better believe Beau's is talking to Costco about getting listed.

I haven't been to Montreal for about 4-5 years. Has the draft selection at bars changed at all or is it still all macros and Quebec craft? For my first visit to Montreal years before that I was quite disappointed to not find any NY, Vermont, Maine, Mass., beers there, both on draft and in bottles.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:54 pm

I really don't understand the things that governments do.

These retailers will only be allowed to sell six-packs or single beers. The licences will require social responsibility training, special hours, separated closed off areas for the beer, and limit annual sales per outlet to $1 million.

Obviously limiting it to six packs is stupid, but why closed off areas? What for? It's not like they don't let minors in TBS or the LCBO. Also, why on earth would you put a sales limit on it? So bizarre.

Instead of a franchise fee for the Beer Store, the panel opted for a new tax on all beer sales in the province. The new tax means the price of 24-pack will increase 25 cents every Nov. 1 for the next five years, a decision Clark said was made in fairness to the big brewers. To try to ensure that’s not passed onto consumers, the new Beer Store agreement ensures prices for the most popular brands will not increase before May 1, 2017, which makes up about 50 per cent of all beer sales. But small and craft brewers and the other half of all brands could see small increases.

So...in fairness to big brewers, they're making them eat a tax increase for two years? Also, why are they slipping new taxes in at all?

Small brewers across Ontario will also be allowed to sell beer on-site at all their locations, no matter how small, which was previously restricted.

I wonder if this solves the problem Bellwoods was going to have with their second location?

The barebones Beer Stores will be getting a $100-million facelift, with at least 80 per cent of that money committed under the new agreement going to retail store improvements. The new deal also requires all new stores to be open concept and self-serve format, and include more chances for brewers to show off cool new suds to consumers.

The government is forcing TBS to change their store layouts? I hate TBS as much as the next guy, but I don't see why the government should have a say in whether they sell beer self-serve or behind the counter.

LCBO stores can currently only sell six-packs of beer and singles, whether cans or large bottles. This was written into the old Beer Store agreement to help protect its sales of 12- and 24-packs. Now the province will test-run allowing 10 LCBO stores to sell 12 packs and could eventually ramp that up to 60. Why is it such a small fraction of the retailer’s 651 locations? The panel states, “This initiative may significantly erode the economics of The Beer Store, especially in light of the Council’s proposal to sell beer in grocery stores.”

Uh, why are we trying to protect the economics of The Beer Store from LCBO competition?