Summerhill Growler/Craft Beer Destination Store

[Cass]

Hasn't it already been announced they're only going to be able to list what TBS or LCBO have? I can't remember that specifically, but they did say the prices had to be the same in the grocery stores as everywhere else, which is only really possible with that limitation.

Hopefully the grocery chains decide it's worth it to get themselves set up as importers so they can carry things the other guys don't, which would probably involve lobbying and some time.

I don't know if I saw anywhere that said grocery stores would be unable to facilitate their own private orders through the LCBO, like what Volo does. It is conceivable that even under this kind of situation that prices would be consistent, as everything has to go through the LCBO anyway and prices would be set through them.

To me this is the single biggest issue that could represent a glimmer of hope for beer retail. Otherwise the grocery stores will simply be satellite locations of TBS and LCBO with zero uniqueness whatsoever.

[Craig]

I fully expect Grocery stores to have listings very similar to TBS. For all the reasons previously stated, especially the listing fees. In large part, I think this will be because of the limited roll-out of stores. Maybe if the government would let independent grocery stores or even smaller chains like Whole Foods in on the party one of them might set up a Volo-like arrangement, but if it's just Loblaw, Empire, Metro, Cosco and Walmart all we're going to see is macro beer with maybe a few token craft options.

[saints_gambit]

Hasn't it already been announced they're only going to be able to list what TBS or LCBO have? I can't remember that specifically, but they did say the prices had to be the same in the grocery stores as everywhere else, which is only really possible with that limitation.

Hopefully the grocery chains decide it's worth it to get themselves set up as importers so they can carry things the other guys don't, which would probably involve lobbying and some time.

I don't know if I saw anywhere that said grocery stores would be unable to facilitate their own private orders through the LCBO, like what Volo does. It is conceivable that even under this kind of situation that prices would be consistent, as everything has to go through the LCBO anyway and prices would be set through them.

To me this is the single biggest issue that could represent a glimmer of hope for beer retail. Otherwise the grocery stores will simply be satellite locations of TBS and LCBO with zero uniqueness whatsoever.

Realistically, I believe this to be one of the only selling points for the grocery stores. Beer sales are only a draw to a specific chain if they can stock something other people don't have. Otherwise, why would you go to Loblaws over Metro or Sobeys? I think you're going to see own brand stuff and chain specific imports and choices from local breweries. That's what I'd be working on if I were advising them.

[ErkLR]

...if it's just Loblaw, Empire, Metro, Cosco and Walmart all we're going to see is macro beer with maybe a few token craft options.

IIRC wasn't it that 20% shelf space will have to be dedicated to ON craft beer? But Steamwhistle, and the core brands of Mill Street, Amsterdam and one or two others will fill out that requirement. I would guess that for efficiency all chain stores will carry the same brands as everyone else in their chain. It'll just be that Metro will sell Amsterdam and Loblaws will sell Great Lakes core brands or something like that. I'd doubt you'll see anything innovative for a while.

Clearly I'm less optimistic than Jordan.

[Masterplan]

Here's the presentation the LCBO gave:

http://www.doingbusinesswithlcbo.com/tr ... %20Two.pdf

Grrrrrr! The map doesn't have a dot on Kingston!? But Sault Ste Marie, Sudbury, Owen Sound, & Parry Sound, all seeming get one?!

I guess my Watertown trips will be more frequent....

[Craig]

Here's the presentation the LCBO gave:

http://www.doingbusinesswithlcbo.com/tr ... %20Two.pdf

Grrrrrr! The map doesn't have a dot on Kingston!? But Sault Ste Marie, Sudbury, Owen Sound, & Parry Sound, all seeming get one?!

I guess my Watertown trips will be more frequent....

One store East of Toronto is plenty, right?

There are only 12 dots on that map for a 25 store program. You might still have some hope.

Another thing that was in the governments report we haven't heard anything about in a while is that online shop they were talking about setting up. That might give Kingstonians access to anything in the craft beer shops without having to travel.

[Masterplan]

Here's the presentation the LCBO gave:

http://www.doingbusinesswithlcbo.com/tr ... %20Two.pdf

Grrrrrr! The map doesn't have a dot on Kingston!? But Sault Ste Marie, Sudbury, Owen Sound, & Parry Sound, all seeming get one?!

I guess my Watertown trips will be more frequent....

One store East of Toronto is plenty, right?

There are only 12 dots on that map for a 25 store program. You might still have some hope.

Another thing that was in the governments report we haven't heard anything about in a while is that online shop they were talking about setting up. That might give Kingstonians access to anything in the craft beer shops without having to travel.

I'd hazard to guess that Toronto dot is worth 14...

Are you suggesting that putting faith in the LCBO's ability to handle the pick up and delivery of my beer in a timely and efficient manner to thousands of individual customers, is supposed to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside?

[Craig]

Of the many, many, many things the LCBO is really shitty at, shipping stock to individual stores isn't really one of them. They ship private orders to your closets LCBO right now, and I think in general they do an OK job of it.

I mean they're shipping it from an unrefrigerated warehouse to the unrefrigerated back room of a store on an unrefrigerated truck after holding up the delivery for a month while waiting for pointless lab testing and making the supplier change the label, but the pickup and delivery usually go pretty well.

[Masterplan]

The list of smilies available doesn't adequately convey how that makes me feel...

[Belgian]

How did I miss this post?

Looks like recently the LCBO had finally arrived at an idea how to do their job with craft beer, they undeniably recognize the proper direction to head in - aaand now they just make up bizarre, Orwellian excuses not to. "Drastic surge in craft beer sales, time to reduce listings" - whaatt, WHY LCBO, is it to help out the Big Brands who were losing market share? How do you possibly have a right to a monopoly but then to (for you) conveniently streamline brands and favor larger producers?

What a bunch of corrupt soviet-style gangsters. They know exactly what service they are obliged to provide, in order to even be allowed to exist.

[alsiem]

I can see why the LCBO would be hesitant to handle product that doesn't sell. I think a good solution would be to:

1) Set up these stores in markets with proven product demand.
2) Set up an online store that people could order product to smaller stores (served from central warehouse).

Viola! No Mikkeller wandering further and further north as it doesn't sell in primary markets.

[darmokandjalad]

Viola! No Mikkeller wandering further and further north as it doesn't sell in primary markets.

The points made in your post are both good ideas that I would like to see implemented, but I am sceptical of the quoted claim.

I really think most of the Mikkeller stock would have sat around forever regardless of what the LCBO did. Texas Ranger and Monk's Brew were the only beers worth paying for in that release (you might be able to argue the Black, too, but I wouldn't), and they were still, by most people's accounts, overpriced. These beers have been on the shelves for like 7-8 months now, have had their prices slashed, and are STILL gathering dust by the hundreds. Mikkeller beers are still sitting on the shelves because all of the people who wanted to try them have already done so, and very few members of that group felt like it was worth purchasing additional bottles (even at the discounted price).

Importing pale ales and cream ales from Europe and selling them at 4+ bucks a pop was just a bad idea. Especially in large quantities. If you can't price a 330 mL bottle of pale ale for less than 4 bucks a bottle, honestly I don't even see the point in bothering to stock them - especially if they aren't going to be really, really fresh. No amount of shuffling inventory between stores is going to make people want to buy overpriced, old, imported pale ales when there are plenty of fresh, affordable, often superior ones already on the shelves.

[napoleon]

I really think most of the Mikkeller stock would have sat around forever regardless of what the LCBO did. Texas Ranger and Monk's Brew were the only beers worth paying for in that release (you might be able to argue the Black, too, but I wouldn't), and they were still, by most people's accounts, overpriced. These beers have been on the shelves for like 7-8 months now, have had their prices slashed, and are STILL gathering dust by the hundreds. Mikkeller beers are still sitting on the shelves because all of the people who wanted to try them have already done so, and very few members of that group felt like it was worth purchasing additional bottles (even at the discounted price).

Well said. Although I did like a couple other beers from the release (definitely NOT the Black). I never saw any of them actually discounted though. Still were at full price last time I noticed them at the LCBO on Spadina between Dundas and College. That's more of a homeless person buying a single sort of store than a craft beer destination.
EDIT: Oops, the current prices that are listed are less than the original. Just looked like a plausible original high price now after discounting. I forgot they were so expensive to start. Great to try once or twice, and then I moved on by and large.

[darmokandjalad]

Well said. Although I did like a couple other beers from the release (definitely NOT the Black).

I actually also liked the Green Gold, and the Cream Ale was quite good (for a cream ale), IMO. Haven't opened the black yet, and I probably won't for a few years. Disappointment is a dish best served cold, I hear.

I don't think any of the beers were bad - I tried them all (other than the Black) and gave them all decent-to-good ratings. They just weren't worth the price tag.

[Belgian]

^ Here you go. The Cream and Pale were decent, yes and the distribution strategy of 330mls in Ontario just doesn't suit Mikkeller's cost structure so the pricing is doomed to failure. He's still a good brewer!

Now if they brought in Jackie Brown in 750mls, or the Beer Geek or Weasel beers, those could do well because you're not trying to sell a cream ale from a tiny Danish Gypsy brewery. Mikkeller should sell us beers that are both desirable at a moderate to high price, AND repeatable eg. if Weasel was reasonably priced, you might drink that more than once (I already mentioned the Texas Ranger was a great stout except for the shortcoming IMO of the added chillies.)