LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

This forum is for discussing current and upcoming LCBO, Beer Store and Grocery Store releases and policies.

Moderators: GregClow, Cass

User avatar
saints_gambit
Bar Fly
Posts: 649
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Contact:

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby saints_gambit » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:13 am

Really? You think it's a conspiracy whereby they stop bringing in beers that sit on the shelves indefinitely and don't sell because they have 12 packs in 10 stores as a test market?

Lemme ask you something. How many bottles of Mikkeller did you buy when they came in? How many bottles of Nogne's Sunturnbrew? Do you really think the loss of six individual SKU's per quarter is the result of big brewery interference? Don't you think it's far more likely that it's the result of the 50 new breweries in Ontario each of the last two years and the fact that they are probably responsible for 100 additional beer SKU's at the LCBO? In a finite amount of space you can support local or import and the LCBO opted for local.

That's all that is.
saintjohnswort.ca
User avatar
Craig
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1712
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:23 am

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby Craig » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:46 am

Just since this point seems to get thrown around a lot around here, I'm pretty sure the source for the thought that the LCBO dropped some of their selection because of grocery store sales comes from these two posts:

biegaman wrote:...
While the category manager spoke in detail about the fall of domestic sales and the drastic rise of craft sales, she also mentioned they will likely be shrinking the beer category. She said they carry too many brands as it is. To wit, they have now limited the seasonal releases to maximum 10 beers, with each agency only allowed to submit 3 brands for consideration per. The Christmas and Halloween releases are likely to be reduced too and may be merged with the fall/winter. The brewery spotlight program is officially on hiatus (not likely to ever return, so I've been told unofficially).

Hesitancy with regards to seasonal products was related to the fact that they've had difficulties selling through orders once the season passes.They put the onus for beers arriving late to market or stale dated on agents and external forces (which, to be fair, is sometimes true. But still, they're not innocent and I wish they would constructively address this problem rather than try to avoid any blame).

...

By way of conclusion, the Board's prerogative as outlined multiple times at trade day is to shift away from beer (low margins, labour intensive, seasonal sensitivity) and renew/heighten the emphasis on spirits (high margins, long shelf life, etc). The outlook for craft beer that I got was a grim one, with no commitment to improving (or even capitalizing on current successes). For better or worse, Ontario brewers is clearly the focus. The growler project sounds very limited in so far as what it will offer. While they addressed beer in corner stores they shed no details on what the plan is there nor what their plan is in response. There continues to be no sincere effort to work with trade partners or to address the deficiencies in this beer market.


biegaman wrote:Beer in grocery stores *WAS* cited in the presentation as an excuse to tighten up the beer category. They see it that fewer SKUs allow for better efficiencies and high-volume, proven brands are safer and more economically viable.
User avatar
saints_gambit
Bar Fly
Posts: 649
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Contact:

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby saints_gambit » Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:10 pm

I know I keep saying this, and I figure I will continue saying it anyway:

The LCBO is not designed for Beer Sales and never was. It's like criticizing a subway for not reaching 30,000 ft.
saintjohnswort.ca
nickw
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:56 pm

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby nickw » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:47 pm

saints_gambit wrote:I know I keep saying this, and I figure I will continue saying it anyway:

The LCBO is not designed for Beer Sales and never was. It's like criticizing a subway for not reaching 30,000 ft.


I think what is most frustrating, then, is that every now and then we get teased and tantalized by great products and great releases only to have them back away from actually making bringing great, non-Ontario stuff a commitment of theirs. Instead, we've seen a move to accommodate tall cans and bombers by the 000s of new Ontario breweries (despite having other options to purchase most of them -- grocery and brewery direct) seemingly at the expense of great stuff from Europe and the US or brewery features (I'm not at all tied to this hit-or-miss approach) like Founders or DDC that we can't get anywhere else. Get beer people all excited by offering Westy 12 or Goose Island BCBS or Utopias once a year or so and say "look at the world-class product we're bringing in for you guys!!!" but then the week after show make more shelf space for cases of the latest Ontario Pale Ale or Ontario Contract Brewery Lager.
User avatar
saints_gambit
Bar Fly
Posts: 649
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Contact:

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby saints_gambit » Thu Apr 28, 2016 2:29 pm

nickw wrote:
saints_gambit wrote:I know I keep saying this, and I figure I will continue saying it anyway:

The LCBO is not designed for Beer Sales and never was. It's like criticizing a subway for not reaching 30,000 ft.


I think what is most frustrating, then, is that every now and then we get teased and tantalized by great products and great releases only to have them back away from actually making bringing great, non-Ontario stuff a commitment of theirs. Instead, we've seen a move to accommodate tall cans and bombers by the 000s of new Ontario breweries (despite having other options to purchase most of them -- grocery and brewery direct) seemingly at the expense of great stuff from Europe and the US or brewery features (I'm not at all tied to this hit-or-miss approach) like Founders or DDC that we can't get anywhere else. Get beer people all excited by offering Westy 12 or Goose Island BCBS or Utopias once a year or so and say "look at the world-class product we're bringing in for you guys!!!" but then the week after show make more shelf space for cases of the latest Ontario Pale Ale or Ontario Contract Brewery Lager.


Here's the thing:

The political ramifications of not bringing in something interesting from another country are nil. As a percentage of the population, the people who seek new foreign beer releases from the LCBO are relatively small. If they were larger, the brewery features wouldn't have languished on shelves. And the complaint can always be argued away by saying "well, we can't bring in everything."

The political ramifications of not stocking Ontario breweries and letting a local manufacturing industry languor are significant. Almost every MP now has a brewery in their riding. "Why aren't my guys in your stores" they will say. They do not have an opposite number from X COUNTRY to bring any political clout to bear.

Also, the idea that grocery is an alternate channel on a long term basis, while likely to be true in future, is not really a good basis for that argument since it has literally only been five months. They needed the solution now. I admit that it's frustrating that it's not going faster, but you'll see more political will brought to the issue when the current ~200 breweries start feeling ready to expand.
saintjohnswort.ca
User avatar
Craig
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1712
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:23 am

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby Craig » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:38 pm

saints_gambit wrote:I know I keep saying this, and I figure I will continue saying it anyway:

The LCBO is not designed for Beer Sales and never was. It's like criticizing a subway for not reaching 30,000 ft.


... If the subway had a government mandated monopoly on flying, I guess.
nickw
Posts: 230
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:56 pm

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby nickw » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:20 pm

saints_gambit wrote:
nickw wrote:
saints_gambit wrote:I know I keep saying this, and I figure I will continue saying it anyway:

The LCBO is not designed for Beer Sales and never was. It's like criticizing a subway for not reaching 30,000 ft.


I think what is most frustrating, then, is that every now and then we get teased and tantalized by great products and great releases only to have them back away from actually making bringing great, non-Ontario stuff a commitment of theirs. Instead, we've seen a move to accommodate tall cans and bombers by the 000s of new Ontario breweries (despite having other options to purchase most of them -- grocery and brewery direct) seemingly at the expense of great stuff from Europe and the US or brewery features (I'm not at all tied to this hit-or-miss approach) like Founders or DDC that we can't get anywhere else. Get beer people all excited by offering Westy 12 or Goose Island BCBS or Utopias once a year or so and say "look at the world-class product we're bringing in for you guys!!!" but then the week after show make more shelf space for cases of the latest Ontario Pale Ale or Ontario Contract Brewery Lager.


Here's the thing:

The political ramifications of not bringing in something interesting from another country are nil. As a percentage of the population, the people who seek new foreign beer releases from the LCBO are relatively small. If they were larger, the brewery features wouldn't have languished on shelves. And the complaint can always be argued away by saying "well, we can't bring in everything."

The political ramifications of not stocking Ontario breweries and letting a local manufacturing industry languor are significant. Almost every MP now has a brewery in their riding. "Why aren't my guys in your stores" they will say. They do not have an opposite number from X COUNTRY to bring any political clout to bear.

Also, the idea that grocery is an alternate channel on a long term basis, while likely to be true in future, is not really a good basis for that argument since it has literally only been five months. They needed the solution now. I admit that it's frustrating that it's not going faster, but you'll see more political will brought to the issue when the current ~200 breweries start feeling ready to expand.


I get the political ramifications more than you know.

I'm just expressing my frustration as a beer consumer in this province at the regime we live under (as has been done countless times) and it seemingly thinking that they're doing us a favour by bringing in a SKU every now and then of something great (which those that languished on shelves objectively were not) from *elsewhere* will wholly satisfy (a select few, sure).

As for 200+ breweries expanding -- it's great for local economies and local consumers who want to drink Penetanguishene Pale on Georgian Bay or Dryden Dark in NW Ontario or Leamington Lager down near the Michigan border, but we don't necessarily need to see something by all of them in all parts of the province; a little curation on the part of breweries and by local grocery and LCBO store buyers would be great to see.
portwood
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:56 pm
Location: Markham
Contact:

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby portwood » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:06 am

Agree 100% that it's not practical for every single brewery to be stocked in every store (lcbo ...or private for that matter). However, those brewers shield be allowed to sell AND SHIP to anyone, anywhere, willing to buy their products (esp if not available at their local BO)
@markhamwhisky
User avatar
Craig
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1712
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:23 am

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby Craig » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:55 am

portwood wrote:Agree 100% that it's not practical for every single brewery to be stocked in every store (lcbo ...or private for that matter). However, those brewers shield be allowed to sell AND SHIP to anyone, anywhere, willing to buy their products (esp if not available at their local BO)


The 'BO has plans in the works to set up a website that allows people to buy things that aren't in stores. Hopefully that will make this possible.
User avatar
saints_gambit
Bar Fly
Posts: 649
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 1:38 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Contact:

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby saints_gambit » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:37 am

nickw wrote:
I get the political ramifications more than you know.

I'm just expressing my frustration as a beer consumer in this province at the regime we live under (as has been done countless times) and it seemingly thinking that they're doing us a favour by bringing in a SKU every now and then of something great (which those that languished on shelves objectively were not) from *elsewhere* will wholly satisfy (a select few, sure).

As for 200+ breweries expanding -- it's great for local economies and local consumers who want to drink Penetanguishene Pale on Georgian Bay or Dryden Dark in NW Ontario or Leamington Lager down near the Michigan border, but we don't necessarily need to see something by all of them in all parts of the province; a little curation on the part of breweries and by local grocery and LCBO store buyers would be great to see.


Believe it or not, it is actually going that way with the geographic regions. It's just not immediately visible because we're not in them.
saintjohnswort.ca
User avatar
spinrsx
Beer Superstar
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:27 am
Location: Ottawa

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby spinrsx » Tue May 03, 2016 7:51 am

Cuvee Des Jacobins showing stock
Gavin
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:44 am

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby Gavin » Thu May 19, 2016 10:09 am

spinrsx wrote:Cuvee Des Jacobins showing stock


I bought a few at the Dundas/Dovercourt store last week.
napoleon
Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:37 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby napoleon » Thu May 19, 2016 10:50 am

Craig wrote:
saints_gambit wrote:I know I keep saying this, and I figure I will continue saying it anyway:

The LCBO is not designed for Beer Sales and never was. It's like criticizing a subway for not reaching 30,000 ft.


... If the subway had a government mandated monopoly on flying, I guess.

Exactly, that's the problem! It turns out the LCBO is the only place to get non-macro imported beer.

I think my real frustration is how much potential there is here. Right now, they insist on essentially every LCBO being Wal-Mart. Standardized, the same number of SKU's, similar products, not a lot of store-level control. Instead, they should have a sub-brand for craft beer. Try out a couple stores that specialize in craft beer. Let them stock what the customer wants. This way the LCBO in rural Ontario doesn't have to stock the exact same products as the one in hipster central in Toronto. They already do a decent job of this with wine.

Either that or relax their monopoly further on beer.
User avatar
Craig
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1712
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:23 am

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby Craig » Thu May 19, 2016 11:15 am

They actually are trying out a few craft beer-centric stores this year. Summerhill is the first.
User avatar
El Pinguino
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:02 pm
Location: Downtown TO / Galapagos Islands
Contact:

Re: LCBO Summer Craft Beer Release 2016

Postby El Pinguino » Thu May 19, 2016 3:25 pm

Craig wrote:They actually are trying out a few craft beer-centric stores this year. Summerhill is the first.


Since nobody here seems to know about this, are they actually promoting that somehow? Experiment is doomed to fail if they don't get the word out.

Return to “LCBO, Beer Store and Grocery Stores”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron