The Bar Towel

Belgian wrote:

Craig wrote:Online sales are restricted to cases specifically because the costs with processing partial cases aren't worth it. The costs associated with partial returns are even worse, it must destroy their profit margins.

Weeping right now. With laughter. The LCBO doesn't assume or need the same margin on everything they sell, certainly not high end and niche/specialty stuff. Some things in Vintages etc. might as well be loss leaders, and the LC who are in a privileged position have to serve the market without forcing cases of stuff down people's throats.

Craig wrote:It makes for inefficient use of shelf space, but more importantly, there's overhead involved in processing the return and getting it back on shelves.

You can hear the smallest violin in the world I'm playing here. They can't run the entire system streamlined like a Home Depot and own the entire captive market while they neglect the real consumer's needs. These small orders are not the bulk of their business, they don't really blip on the LCBO's overall massive profits, and it's been proven the 'Bo don't try to be all that efficient in the first place. So I don't care how they deal with shelf space, overhead, or hassle. They've had it too easy too long and I bet some of the better store staff are bored and would love something to do (they are always asking about or trying new stuff, so make friends with them.)
2¢

Well, for starters, the LCBO does assume the same margin on everything they sell. Or very nearly, their standard markup varies a little bit by product type, but it's generally very consistent.

For everything else you said, it seems like you're arguing that the LCBO sucks, not that allowing returns like this isn't bad business practice. Just because the LCBO is bad at everything doesn't mean they should also be bad at this.

rejtable wrote:I am certainly worried that, if a high percentage of online orders end up coming back as partials, the whole program gets cancelled or scaled back significantly.

Already rumblings of this.

I suspect that the LCBO will eventually designate an open case from an online order as an open product...

dale cannon wrote:

rejtable wrote:I am certainly worried that, if a high percentage of online orders end up coming back as partials, the whole program gets cancelled or scaled back significantly.

Already rumblings of this.

Good. Fuck their system.

And I love that people are bringing stuff back.

Plus the minimal selection is pure shit. Not that the beers aren't good from that minimal selection... but still... shit selection.

Could just say it tastes 'off' though.. no?

Masterplan wrote:I suspect that the LCBO will eventually designate an open case from an online order as an open product...

bottom line for me: the more restrictions they put on it, the less likely I am to give KGBO my money* ... all the more full cases available to the apologists who would like to keep the government monopoly in the dark ages of retail

(*same applies to any other retailer or business)

Craig wrote:Well, for starters, the LCBO does assume the same margin on everything they sell. Or very nearly, their standard markup varies a little bit by product type, but it's generally very consistent.

For everything else you said, it seems like you're arguing that the LCBO sucks, not that allowing returns like this isn't bad business practice. Just because the LCBO is bad at everything doesn't mean they should also be bad at this.

I have been shown data that (for Social Responsibility) the LCBO hit us harder on the low end stuff by demanding the supplier charge them more to make a higher target shelf price, same is less true of high-end products that occupy so little overall sales and revenue volume so they care less about them. Maybe I wasn't clear there yes - the point still is they care less about high end stuff, it's not their bread and butter and gravy... and gravy.
^ The LC therefore charges a more varied markup on different things than, say the American market does but they hide the higher markups on items by paying the supplier more!

The rest was to say that what you believe to be financial concerns for the LCBO are in reality a complete wash, insignificant. Yes I'm saying that they can ignore minor losses from a few possibly questionable returns as a sort of honor system, especially if they waste fifty thousand times as much internally. I'm absolutely saying they have to get their own house in order before they get nit-picky about negligible effect of returns. I would even say they will lose some sales if they become SuperCops about returns so the effort might yield net zero or worse. A relaxed buyer is more likely to buy things in the first place, and then hang on to them out of inertia. (How do I know this? )

dale cannon wrote:

rejtable wrote:I am certainly worried that, if a high percentage of online orders end up coming back as partials, the whole program gets cancelled or scaled back significantly.

Already rumblings of this.

Where did you hear about these rumblings?

Masterplan wrote:I suspect that the LCBO will eventually designate an open case from an online order as an open product...

That would be so absurd, since they would really need to alter their return policy, not to mention let their social responsibility directive fly out the window. The LCBO suffers not one bit by letting customers return a few bottles to the store they pick up from, only for them to end up being sold on the shelf any way. And we are talking about a handful of bottles. Each time my order came to my local, I could see the private order shelf in the back had just a handful of orders and the clerk did confirm to me that so far they aren't dealing with many orders at all. The only bitching I forsee is from their generally under-informed, under-worked and change resistant workforce.

Lukie wrote:

Masterplan wrote:I suspect that the LCBO will eventually designate an open case from an online order as an open product...

That would be so absurd, since they would really need to alter their return policy, not to mention let their social responsibility directive fly out the window. The LCBO suffers not one bit by letting customers return a few bottles to the store they pick up from, only for them to end up being sold on the shelf any way. And we are talking about a handful of bottles. Each time my order came to my local, I could see the private order shelf in the back had just a handful of orders and the clerk did confirm to me that so far they aren't dealing with many orders at all. The only bitching I forsee is from their generally under-informed, under-worked and change resistant workforce.

Agreed. Without the flexible returns, they are effectively forcing Ontarians to buy bulk or 'wholesale' quantities (at full retail price) without this needed work-around to ameliorate this patently incongruent sales policy.

And it IS a work-around, which like any work-around fixes something that's a little broken, and the thing that is broken is the system the LCBO imposed on us, not something we should be required to help them fix.

Wow, the LCBO has certainly managed to deflate enthusiasm about this new venture fast, by basically launching with just a handful of online exclusives and with anything worthwhile selling out quick. Looks like they didn't plan this out properly and hardly anyone talks about their online store after just a couple of months after opening it.

Lukie wrote:Wow, the LCBO has certainly managed to deflate enthusiasm about this new venture fast, by basically launching with just a handful of online exclusives and with anything worthwhile selling out quick. Looks like they didn't plan this out properly and hardly anyone talks about their online store after just a couple of months after opening it.

The entire LCBO system relies heavily on agents to bring in products (this is part of the problem with the LCBO). This new online system is a great oppourtunity for agents, however, other tan Keep6.....no one is using it. Perhaps those lazy fucks just want their guaranteed seasonal listings and dont want to actually do some work and promote products.

Regardless....heard Cascade is coming. Probably via Keep6.

Most other agents haven't bothered to make contact with brewers who make premium-priced beer, because in the old system I think you were better off going with volume. But the LCBO is artificially limiting supply online, so the only products it makes sense to sell cost like $200 a case. Keep6 are the only ones with a portfolio that works in the current system.

BakaGaijin wrote:

Lukie wrote:Wow, the LCBO has certainly managed to deflate enthusiasm about this new venture fast, by basically launching with just a handful of online exclusives and with anything worthwhile selling out quick. Looks like they didn't plan this out properly and hardly anyone talks about their online store after just a couple of months after opening it.

The entire LCBO system relies heavily on agents to bring in products (this is part of the problem with the LCBO). This new online system is a great oppourtunity for agents, however, other tan Keep6.....no one is using it. Perhaps those lazy fucks just want their guaranteed seasonal listings and dont want to actually do some work and promote products.

Regardless....heard Cascade is coming. Probably via Keep6.

You can only participate in the online program if you have a consignment license. They haven't allocated any in many, many years (10+?). The waiting list to *apply* for one is well over 200 agencies deep.

We would see an incredible increase in selection (not just online, but at bars and grocery chains) if they'd open it up. Consignment is much easier, practical and cheaper than private order (which is an incredibly prohibitive process, and isn't compatible with online anyway).

Craig wrote:Most other agents haven't bothered to make contact with brewers who make premium-priced beer, because in the old system I think you were better off going with volume. But the LCBO is artificially limiting supply online, so the only products it makes sense to sell cost like $200 a case. Keep6 are the only ones with a portfolio that works in the current system.

Not exactly true. Keep6 are one of the very, very few beer importers with a consignment license (see my reply above). They're also in a unique situation because, at least in the past, they could be their own best customer (Volo).

Regardless, you're right that it's very impractical and difficult to convince brewers to work within the confines of Ontario regulations.