The Bar Towel

matt7215 wrote:

Craig wrote: gouged by AMEX too?

AMEX is a very expensive card to accept, which is why we dont accept payment via AMEX

Not only is Amex more expensive to the retailer than the other major cards, they hold the funds 3 days. Whereas the retailer gets the money from Visa/Mastercard in their bank account overnight!!!

I've been an Amex user in the past (Costco card), but I have to say, if I were a retailer, NO EFFIN way I would accept Amex ... unless I was selling 'luxury' products with high margins. As much as we pay for alcohol in Ontario, beer/wine/spirits are a low margin business for the producers.

portwood wrote:

matt7215 wrote:

Craig wrote: gouged by AMEX too?

AMEX is a very expensive card to accept, which is why we dont accept payment via AMEX

Not only is Amex more expensive to the retailer than the other major cards, they hold the funds 3 days. Whereas the retailer gets the money from Visa/Mastercard in their bank account overnight!!!

I've been an Amex user in the past (Costco card), but I have to say, if I were a retailer, NO EFFIN way I would accept Amex ... unless I was selling 'luxury' products with high margins. As much as we pay for alcohol in Ontario, beer/wine/spirits are a low margin business for the producers.

Even absent all this illuminating detail the original complaint immediately struck me as odd. Very few retailers in Canada accept AMEX as it is and expecting a small (comparatively) brewery to accept it seems unreasonable.

If a brewer can convince me they will make more money if I pay cash at the LCBO vs. pay AMEX at their bottleshop....I'll never complain about it again.
I know AMEX is more (sometimes much more) expensive to merchants, but I really don't give a hoot. Many small guys Do accept it...so some brewery, please give me a detailed breakdown of me buying 3 of your beers these two ways.
I've asked breweries directly about this and they all ignore it or give a lame answer. Nobody has proven to me it's not worth their effort to accept AMEX.

El Pinguino wrote:If a brewer can convince me they will make more money if I pay cash at the LCBO vs. pay AMEX at their bottleshop....I'll never complain about it again.
I know AMEX is more (sometimes much more) expensive to merchants, but I really don't give a hoot. Many small guys Do accept it...so some brewery, please give me a detailed breakdown of me buying 3 of your beers these two ways.
I've asked breweries directly about this and they all ignore it or give a lame answer. Nobody has proven to me it's not worth their effort to accept AMEX.

i can't imagine why breweries are ignoring you...

El Pinguino wrote: I know AMEX is more (sometimes much more) expensive to merchants.

Nobody has proven to me it's not worth their effort to accept AMEX.

I think you answered your own question

El Pinguino wrote:If a brewer can convince me they will make more money if I pay cash at the LCBO vs. pay AMEX at their bottleshop....I'll never complain about it again.
I know AMEX is more (sometimes much more) expensive to merchants, but I really don't give a hoot. Many small guys Do accept it...so some brewery, please give me a detailed breakdown of me buying 3 of your beers these two ways.
I've asked breweries directly about this and they all ignore it or give a lame answer. Nobody has proven to me it's not worth their effort to accept AMEX.

Are you trolling us?

Is he trolling us?

I demand breweries to tell me how much they are saving if I pay them with cash not debit or credit. By midnight EST.

El Pinguino wrote:If a brewer can convince me they will make more money if I pay cash at the LCBO vs. pay AMEX at their bottleshop....I'll never complain about it again.
I know AMEX is more (sometimes much more) expensive to merchants, but I really don't give a hoot. Many small guys Do accept it...so some brewery, please give me a detailed breakdown of me buying 3 of your beers these two ways.
I've asked breweries directly about this and they all ignore it or give a lame answer. Nobody has proven to me it's not worth their effort to accept AMEX.

Diehard Amex fan, I guess. But honestly, for the last decade or so, the business side of the equation has managed to tool AMEX so badly that today they look like unusable snobby plastic for snob stops only. Visa may be next one on the chopping block, as we've seen with Walmart targeting it.

Belgian wrote:I demand breweries to tell me how much they are saving if I pay them with cash not debit or credit. By midnight EST.

Haha, beer geeks are all forensic accountants, I guess.

You guys make this too complicated...

I think GLB is still the best example, not some tiny new startup brewery.

If they are willing to sell through the LCBO at whatever cost that is...they should absorb the extra cost of AMEX direct sales as well. Because I BELIEVE they'd make more profit off that direct sale.

El Pinguino wrote: If they are willing to sell through the LCBO at whatever cost that is...they should absorb the extra cost of AMEX direct sales as well. Because I BELIEVE they'd make more profit off that direct sale.

we already have enough Ontario breweries that have opened based on belief and not facts.
if you're patient enough, you'll see how accurate your belief was, since I expect lots of these breweries' cans to be collector items come 2018

atomeyes wrote: we already have enough Ontario breweries that have opened based on belief and not facts.
if you're patient enough, you'll see how accurate your belief was, since I expect lots of these breweries' cans to be collector items come 2018

I thought we'd start to see more dying off by now too....so it makes me think the market is still stronger than I imagined.

El Pinguino wrote:You guys make this too complicated...

I think GLB is still the best example, not some tiny new startup brewery.

If they are willing to sell through the LCBO at whatever cost that is...they should absorb the extra cost of AMEX direct sales as well. Because I BELIEVE they'd make more profit off that direct sale.

What's one sale to a brewery? Frankly, you come off as a guy who is in love with their points card, and want merchants to foot the bill for your free stuff.

If I were a merchant, I'd take your AMEX card but be tagging you with a $5 charge for using a points card. Kinda wish the government would step in and outlaw points cards in general.

El Pinguino wrote:

atomeyes wrote: we already have enough Ontario breweries that have opened based on belief and not facts.
if you're patient enough, you'll see how accurate your belief was, since I expect lots of these breweries' cans to be collector items come 2018

I thought we'd start to see more dying off by now too....so it makes me think the market is still stronger than I imagined.

takes time for people to burn through their savings.
takes time for investors to want a return on investment.
taes time for a brewery to see that they won't reach their 1 year targets.
takes time for people to realize that places like Bandit are absolutely awful with awful beer and they should go anywhere else.

hearing stories about breweries not hitting their targets. a certain west end brewery apparently is actively trying to find contract breweries to fill in their dead fermentor space. they have not hit #s and they have lots of shiny, new equipment that needs to be paid for.

this year, you'll have Godspeed opening up in the summer. they'll be pushing out volume within 12 months. Cowbell in Blyth will be huge volume-wise. Junction's moving into their new space, as is Blood Brothers.
Left Field apparently has 1 or more large fermentors coming in and they already expanded this year.
GOose Island will have a brewpub open here.
the US breweries will really start to fight for market share. i expect to see Oskar BLues, Lagunitas, Stone, SE, Ballast Point on tap here within the year and to eat into local shares a la Goose Island.

go through a list of good pubs. the pie ain't as big as what one thinks.
we're gonna have a big-ass crash. the bigger guys may feel the hit first, since they're fighting for LCBO shelf space and city taps.
the small guys (i.e. Leslieville breweries that move their brewery into the basement during kitchen service) will realize that Toronto rents and brewing 5 times a week don't add up to a fun and profitable lifestyle.

Masterplan wrote:

El Pinguino wrote:You guys make this too complicated...

I think GLB is still the best example, not some tiny new startup brewery.

If they are willing to sell through the LCBO at whatever cost that is...they should absorb the extra cost of AMEX direct sales as well. Because I BELIEVE they'd make more profit off that direct sale.

What's one sale to a brewery? Frankly, you come off as a guy who is in love with their points card, and want merchants to foot the bill for your free stuff.

If I were a merchant, I'd take your AMEX card but be tagging you with a $5 charge for using a points card. Kinda wish the government would step in and outlaw points cards in general.

I dont care about points, but I do care about the travel insurance and related services on my card, which I use often. If I could get the same benefits on a Visa card for the same price....I'd be happy, it would make things easier for everyone. But....until that becomes an option....