Ontario Liquor Laws suck.

This forum is for discussing current and upcoming LCBO, Beer Store and Grocery Store releases and policies.

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kwjd
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Postby kwjd » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:36 pm

I agree the laws are stupid. Yes, it is possible to get beers into the LCBO, but it isn't easy or quick. There is no real reason I see for a law to prohibit you from purchasing what you want there, other than the Control Board needing to have their control. If they are allowed to sell you the beer to drink on site, clearly this isn't some type of public safety issue.

When I was in Chicago I wasn't able to find the Bourbon County Brand Coffee Stout in stores. Went into Goose Island Brewpub and they gave me bottles from behind the bar. Yes, I had pay the bar price for it, but whatever, awesome stout.
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Torontoblue
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Postby Torontoblue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:49 pm

Queef wrote:And you are saying the process is easy and conducive to a good beer representation in the province?


It's the same as every Province in Canada. You apply, you either get accepted or declined. I deal with the AGLC & BCLDB at the moment, and the BCLDB make the LCBO look like absolute angels. Granted that Alberta is different being a private market, but the Government still have their fingers in the pie. There is a vast amount of good beer in Alberta, but it can be difficult to find, as the Mom & Pop stores will just carry the usual mass swill, and the pricing is all over the place too.

People should look at how Alberta works before wishing it on Ontario. The grass is slightly greener out West, but only just.
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Postby kwjd » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:05 pm

Torontoblue wrote:It's the same as every Province in Canada. You apply, you either get accepted or declined. I deal with the AGLC & BCLDB at the moment, and the BCLDB make the LCBO look like absolute angels. Granted that Alberta is different being a private market, but the Government still have their fingers in the pie. There is a vast amount of good beer in Alberta, but it can be difficult to find, as the Mom & Pop stores will just carry the usual mass swill, and the pricing is all over the place too.

People should look at how Alberta works before wishing it on Ontario. The grass is slightly greener out West, but only just.


Oh come on... I went to a corner liquor store in Lethbridge last year (after midnight and better stores were closed) and they had the full Mill Street lineup, Wild Rose and a couple others. I picked up a 6 pack of Tree Hophead. My friend picked up a 6 pack of Mill Street Wit because he loved it when visiting me in Ontario earlier. Selection wasn't extensive there, but it was a pretty small store.

I would certainly trade the nicer Lethbridge stores for all the selection in Ontario.
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Torontoblue
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Postby Torontoblue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:19 pm

kwjd wrote:
Torontoblue wrote:It's the same as every Province in Canada. You apply, you either get accepted or declined. I deal with the AGLC & BCLDB at the moment, and the BCLDB make the LCBO look like absolute angels. Granted that Alberta is different being a private market, but the Government still have their fingers in the pie. There is a vast amount of good beer in Alberta, but it can be difficult to find, as the Mom & Pop stores will just carry the usual mass swill, and the pricing is all over the place too.

People should look at how Alberta works before wishing it on Ontario. The grass is slightly greener out West, but only just.


Oh come on... I went to a corner liquor store in Lethbridge last year (after midnight and better stores were closed) and they had the full Mill Street lineup, Wild Rose and a couple others. I picked up a 6 pack of Tree Hophead. My friend picked up a 6 pack of Mill Street Wit because he loved it when visiting me in Ontario earlier. Selection wasn't extensive there, but it was a pretty small store.

I would certainly trade the nicer Lethbridge stores for all the selection in Ontario.


And that's roughly the same selection I get up in Edmonton, with Alley Kat & Ambers added to that list. These are all really General Release stuff, nothing special and similar to the local Ontario brews you get at the LCBO. I'd trade some of the stuff we get here for the local Ontario brews I used to get at the LCBO. I'd also like the pricing that the LCBO has on their beers compared to some of the prices for the same beers here; the same beer here can have a price difference of $1 to $2, depending on where you buy it.

To get really good stuff, ala the seasonal LCBO releases, I can't just walk around the corner and grab a 6 of Anchor, Lagunitas, DDC etc etc, (and I have at least 20+ liquor stores within a 15-20 minute walk of my apartment). The decent stores are all good car rides away for me. My local LCBO (St Lawrence market) was a 5 minute walk.
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Postby cattersley » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:23 pm

Bottom line, this is a CONTROL board, they control and restrict access to products making it hard for the consumers who wants to go off the path and try new products as well as brewers who are selling there wares making them go through an exhaustive process to get there products in stores. Oh and when they do get it in stores, which stores are the control of the LCBO again. I am not a lazy consumer, and craft brewers out there aren't "lazy brewers". I worked in a craft brewery twice. They are hard working people whether it be on the brewery floor, or slugging out in the office dealing with the provinces bullshit. They are working within the means of system that hasn't changed much since prohibition. A provincial government has to come in with a sensible vision for reform of the LCBO or deregulation/privatization should be examined... I shouldn't have to go harass the people that what the LCBO when I want a bottle or two of a product that for some reason won't make its way out of Ottawa region or east of Burlington. I shouldn't have to be made to buy a case of it either, or travel to Ajax, Pickering, Port Hope or Queens Quay to get a decent selection of craft beer either!

- cattersley.
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Postby detritus » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:47 pm

cattersley wrote:Bottom line, this is a CONTROL board, they control and restrict access to products making it hard for the consumers who wants to go off the path and try new products as well as brewers who are selling there wares making them go through an exhaustive process to get there products in stores. Oh and when they do get it in stores, which stores are the control of the LCBO again. I am not a lazy consumer, and craft brewers out there aren't "lazy brewers". I worked in a craft brewery twice. They are hard working people whether it be on the brewery floor, or slugging out in the office dealing with the provinces bullshit. They are working within the means of system that hasn't changed much since prohibition. A provincial government has to come in with a sensible vision for reform of the LCBO or deregulation/privatization should be examined... I shouldn't have to go harass the people that what the LCBO when I want a bottle or two of a product that for some reason won't make its way out of Ottawa region or east of Burlington. I shouldn't have to be made to buy a case of it either, or travel to Ajax, Pickering, Port Hope or Queens Quay to get a decent selection of craft beer either!

- cattersley.


Great. Are you done ranting yet? I'd imagine just about everyone here pretty much agrees with you. We've mostly just gotten tired of hearing it again and again and would rather discuss how to work within the system we've got and pursue incremental change.

This forum is littered with the corpses of people who join, start whiney threads like this one, then give up when nobody seems to share their righteous anger. If you don't have anything new to add, other than another useless call to completely overhaul the LCBO, please poceed to the nearest exit.

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Postby matt7215 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:54 pm

i miss threads like this 8)
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Postby Ukie » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:12 pm

matt7215 wrote:i miss threads like this 8)


Just when I thought things were too quiet around here!
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Postby Torontoblue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:25 pm

Ukie wrote:
matt7215 wrote:i miss threads like this 8)


Just when I thought things were too quiet around here!


It's been quiet coz you lot have been out drinking during Ontario Beer Week & Cask Days.

About time we had a bit of 'anger' on this board.
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Postby tuqueboy » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:19 pm

cattersley wrote: I shouldn't have to go harass the people that what the LCBO when I want a bottle or two of a product that for some reason won't make its way out of Ottawa region or east of Burlington. I shouldn't have to be made to buy a case of it either, or travel to Ajax, Pickering, Port Hope or Queens Quay to get a decent selection of craft beer either!

- cattersley.


Dude, you live in Bowmanville. You really think you'd get a better selection in Bowmanville if we had a private system?
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Postby kwjd » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:50 pm

tuqueboy wrote:
cattersley wrote: I shouldn't have to go harass the people that what the LCBO when I want a bottle or two of a product that for some reason won't make its way out of Ottawa region or east of Burlington. I shouldn't have to be made to buy a case of it either, or travel to Ajax, Pickering, Port Hope or Queens Quay to get a decent selection of craft beer either!

- cattersley.


Dude, you live in Bowmanville. You really think you'd get a better selection in Bowmanville if we had a private system?


Judging from smaller cities in private systems, there would be better selection there. At very least there would be a quality place in Oshawa.
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Torontoblue
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Postby Torontoblue » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:44 pm

kwjd wrote:
Torontoblue wrote:It's the same as every Province in Canada. You apply, you either get accepted or declined. I deal with the AGLC & BCLDB at the moment, and the BCLDB make the LCBO look like absolute angels. Granted that Alberta is different being a private market, but the Government still have their fingers in the pie. There is a vast amount of good beer in Alberta, but it can be difficult to find, as the Mom & Pop stores will just carry the usual mass swill, and the pricing is all over the place too.

People should look at how Alberta works before wishing it on Ontario. The grass is slightly greener out West, but only just.


Oh come on... I went to a corner liquor store in Lethbridge last year (after midnight and better stores were closed) and they had the full Mill Street lineup, Wild Rose and a couple others. I picked up a 6 pack of Tree Hophead. My friend picked up a 6 pack of Mill Street Wit because he loved it when visiting me in Ontario earlier. Selection wasn't extensive there, but it was a pretty small store.

I would certainly trade the nicer Lethbridge stores for all the selection in Ontario.


Actually, to tell you the truth, Alberta craps all over Ontario for good beer selection, but distribution of the really good stuff is still pretty limited. Only thing letting the side down here is the pricing, compared to the same product available at the LCBO.
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Postby icemachine » Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:57 pm

kwjd wrote:
tuqueboy wrote:
cattersley wrote: I shouldn't have to go harass the people that what the LCBO when I want a bottle or two of a product that for some reason won't make its way out of Ottawa region or east of Burlington. I shouldn't have to be made to buy a case of it either, or travel to Ajax, Pickering, Port Hope or Queens Quay to get a decent selection of craft beer either!

- cattersley.


Dude, you live in Bowmanville. You really think you'd get a better selection in Bowmanville if we had a private system?


Judging from smaller cities in private systems, there would be better selection there. At very least there would be a quality place in Oshawa.


Whitby maybe, Oshawa not a chance. They built a brand new store at Oshawa Mall (Gibb between Stevenson & Park) and started with a decent selection but don't bother anymore because the local beer demand is met by the "Big Board" at the Beer Store
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Postby Belgian » Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:53 pm

Yeah saying privatization would kill availability in smaller areas is, pardon me, complete bull. It's already bad but it couldn't be worse. About 100 people reading this would start up a small-town store selling beer if they had a chance. I mean if you were already a store owner selling convenience groceries in Perth or Amherstview, why not? Some kind of beer will always sell, and some kinds of people will always be craft beer types.

Given the neglect (abuse?) of present LCBO coverage in smaller areas, I think selection would actually benefit with privatization. At very least we would clear some reactionary LC manager attitudes out of the way of developing the local market for craft beer.
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Postby mintjellie » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:19 am

Syracuse is roughly the same size as Barrie in terms of population and supports two craft beer specialty stores, a craft brewery, two brewpubs, supported at least two very good beer bars (Clarks didn't close due to lack of customers), and multiple supermarkets with a good selection of craft beer. Then there were breweries and brewpubs in smaller outlying towns like Ithaca, Utica, and Oswego. So yes, a great beer scene can exist in a small market.

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