General LCBO Debate & Discussion Thread

Ale's What Cures Ya · Post by **Ale's What Cures Ya** » Tue May 31, 2011 2:11 pm

kwjd wrote:http://www.thestar.com/news/article/999 ... study-says

It’s easier for minors to illegally buy a six-pack of beer at an LCBO or The Beer Store outlet in Ontario than it is for them to buy a pack of cigarettes from a chain convenience store, according to a research company’s “secret shopper” survey.
I guess this takes away "social responsibility" arguments, eh?

I don't find that surprising in the slightest. Private business owners have much more incentive to ensure they are following legal age laws than the faceless duopoly. Social responsibility is a joke, used as nothing more than a way to scare the weak-willed populace into accepting the status quo.

RayOhm · Post by **RayOhm** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:07 pm

kwjd wrote:http://www.thestar.com/news/article/999 ... study-says

It’s easier for minors to illegally buy a six-pack of beer at an LCBO or The Beer Store outlet in Ontario than it is for them to buy a pack of cigarettes from a chain convenience store, according to a research company’s “secret shopper” survey.
I guess this takes away "social responsibility" arguments, eh?

Let's just remember this was an survey financed by the OCSA, not by an independent source. Not to completely discount the findings, but just take it with a grain of salt.

ErkLR · Post by **ErkLR** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:26 pm

RayOhm wrote: Let's just remember this was an survey financed by the OCSA, not by an independent source. Not to completely discount the findings, but just take it with a grain of salt.

Their method did seem sound though, using a random sampling of stores. I guess some people may have a different meaning of "random" and I know some people will find reasons to exclude certain results they don't like.

I *do* like how this study used actual minors, unlike TBS usual protocol of sending 19-25 year olds.

SteelbackGuy · Post by **SteelbackGuy** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:23 pm

RayOhm wrote:
kwjd wrote:http://www.thestar.com/news/article/999 ... study-says

It’s easier for minors to illegally buy a six-pack of beer at an LCBO or The Beer Store outlet in Ontario than it is for them to buy a pack of cigarettes from a chain convenience store, according to a research company’s “secret shopper” survey.
I guess this takes away "social responsibility" arguments, eh?
Let's just remember this was an survey financed by the OCSA, not by an independent source. Not to completely discount the findings, but just take it with a grain of salt.

Exactly. It all needs to be taken into account. Anyone who directly believes the OSCA study, has been brainwashed as well.

Ale's What Cures Ya · Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:47 am

All you need as a teenager to buy alcohol from the LCBO is a beard.

RayOhm · Post by **RayOhm** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:28 am

Ale's What Cures Ya wrote:All you need as a teenager to buy alcohol from the LCBO is a beard.

Or a tie. Ive never been carded while wearing a tie. And I don't look 25.

mh007 · Post by **mh007** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:54 am

Or just buy something unusual. I haven't been carded in years (at the LCBO) and I am well under 25.

kwjd · Post by **kwjd** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:19 am

RayOhm wrote:
Ale's What Cures Ya wrote:All you need as a teenager to buy alcohol from the LCBO is a beard.
Or a tie. Ive never been carded while wearing a tie. And I don't look 25.

I had the same experience when I was 19 or 20 and wore a tie - I didn't get carded ever. I certainly did not look old for my age. When I was on vacation in Alberta a couple years ago (I was 25) I was shocked when I got carded at a private liquor store. It had been years for me (not including bars, which are private though).

Gedge · Post by **Gedge** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:13 pm

We had a system when I was 17. Have at least two or three guys so that if the first is refused the next can try and so on, and dress conservatively - no rock t-shirts, no torn clothes, muted colours (beige was your friend in these cases). Also helped if you had a car so you could go from location to location until you hit gold. Sometimes we had to hit a few stores, but we never came up empty. This was at the Beer Store.

When one of our buddies moved to Burlington we did the same thing and it got to the point that if we went to a certain store and the right guy was working (an older chap with a beard - we called him Santa Claus) we ALWAYS got served.

Also helped if you ordered Guinness, Extra Old Stock, Brador or Toby. Not getting greedy and ordering 24s also helped.

lister · Post by **lister** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:53 pm

I look fairly young for my age. Most people guess wrong and are surprised when I tell them or do the math when checking my drivers license. I used to get carded by the LCBO fairly often years ago. It slowly diminished over time to now never being carded. I do still get carded frequently in Buffalo and Rochester. I didn't try to get alcohol when I was underage because I could get some at home anytime because my parents took a typical European attitude towards booze.

One of the criticisms of private stores selling booze is how easy it would be for minors to get alcohol. It's a non-issue if the fine to the store is high enough.

Kel Varnsen · Post by **Kel Varnsen** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:12 pm

lister wrote: One of the criticisms of private stores selling booze is how easy it would be for minors to get alcohol. It's a non-issue if the fine to the store is high enough.

That's what I have always thought. If you make the penalties stiff enough, and actually have people enforcing it, then no store is going to risk fines and losing their licence after spending a bunch of money on inventory and possibly store renovations to add things like coolers just to sell booze to kids under 19. And if you make stores understand that it becomes a lot more serious then it is at the LCBO. Since really what is the penalty for an LCBO employee selling to someone underage? Do they automatically lose their jobs or anything. Last time I was in New York I bought some beer at a grocery store, and not only did they check my ID but they had to enter my birth date in to the cash register computer before they could complete the transaction (and my birthdate showed up on the receipt). As far as social responsibility goes, I have never seen anything like that anywhere in Canada. But that seems to be almost an industry standard in NY.

mintjellie · Post by **mintjellie** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:42 pm

I've been to a gas station in Oswego that wouldn't even accept my Canadian drivers licence as ID. Not because they doubted it was real, but because store policy was to check ID for every customer buying smokes, and that the ID had to be checked by scanning the magnetic strip. My Canadian drivers licence couldn't be checked there, so I couldn't buy smokes. I would assume this place would do the same for beer as well.

RayOhm · Post by **RayOhm** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:44 pm

Kel Varnsen wrote:Last time I was in New York I bought some beer at a grocery store, and not only did they check my ID but they had to enter my birth date in to the cash register computer before they could complete the transaction (and my birthdate showed up on the receipt).

Its crazy how strict they are at certain places in the States. When we go to Consumers in the Falls they have to have scannable ID, so passports dont work, and if its Canadian someone else has to look at it. Yet the last two times ive been to Premier Gourmet I havnt been carded.

Philip1 · Post by **Philip1** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:28 pm

An article in the Toronto Star.

Rosé wines, craft beer help boost sales: LCBO

http://www.thestar.com/business/article ... sales-lcbo

As the economy improved, the LCBO also saw higher demand for premium wines and spirits and Ontario craft beer last year, the crown agency said Thursday.

Sales through Ontario liquor stores rose by 5.6 per cent to $4.55 billion in the latest fiscal year, which ended March 31, the agency said.

It was the 16th straight year of record sales for the liquor board, which holds a near monopoly on wine and spirit distribution in the province.

The LCBO’s profit rose 8.8 per cent to $1.56 billion, not including retail taxes or liquor licensing fees.

The agency transferred $1.55 billion to the Ontario government to help pay for health care, education, social programs and other government services. That was 9.9 per cent more than the previous year.

“The improving economy saw shoppers trading up to premium products again and this contributed to higher net sales,” said LCBO president and chief executive officer Bob Peter.

It goes on to note:

Ontario VQA wines and Ontario craft beer did particularly well. Ontario VQA wines rose almost 15 per cent while local craft beers were up almost 53 per cent continuing a trend seen in recent years.

The topic being discussed above also comes up:

The Ontario Convenience Store Association, which has long wanted the right to sell booze, recently released a study showing its members do a better job than either The Beer Store or the LCBO of checking customers’ ages before selling them restricted substances.

Based on my own first hand observations I find that assertion questionable. At my local LCBO in particular they are very strict about checking ages. It's pretty clear they take that responsibility seriously.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:03 pm

RayOhm wrote: Its crazy how strict they are at certain places in the States. When we go to Consumers in the Falls they have to have scannable ID, so passports dont work, and if its Canadian someone else has to look at it. Yet the last two times ive been to Premier Gourmet I havnt been carded.

Anecdotally one of the Buffalo Ratebeer guys had been going to Premier Gourmet for a couple of years and finally got carded for the first time. Apparently the cashier was a little shocked to discover he had just recently turned 21! Turns out not many underagers are buying things like Cantillon and Dogfishhead!