Central City Red Racer

[IPASlav]

p.s. I'm sorry I'm so new to this community and write such long posts. I will try to be more brief in the future.

[Torontoblue]

I should add that my main beef with the status quo in Ontario is the prevalence of the Social Responsibility concept. As if Ontario is some sort of safe haven from the evils of over-indulgence, underage drinking, and drinking and driving . Give me a break. I have no patience for the preachy teetotaller lobby*.

*a ficitious term I just came up with

So you've forgotten already that the great super-dooper free retail system in Alberta came within a gnats whisker of banning ALL beers over 11.9%????!!!!????

The Social Responsibility concept in Ontario ignores this when you place private orders.

There is NO Utopia people!!!

[Torontoblue]

I don't care what kind of system we have, but I would rather have one that's looking towards growth and improvement and is committed to getting better beers inside this province, but also supports our local craft brewers.

But isn't this exactly what the LCBO are doing? In the 5 1/2 years I lived in Toronto I saw a vast improvement, and that has continued even more so since I left at the beginning of 2010.

People get slightly blinkered because their style of beer doesn't appear as often as they would like, or their local store only gets a small delivery of a seasonal release.

The LCBO is evolving, it takes time...they have a lot of buying power. Who knows, in a couple of years they may well rival Consumers or Premier.

People also have to realise that a lot of craft breweries are at capacity at the moment and cannot afford to move to a new market. Look at how many US breweries are pulling out of their own domestic markets.

[RayOhm]

Of course stores would stock macro garbage. Of course the stores that stock macro garbage would be in the majority. Why is this a reason to knock a private retail model? How many great beer stores are in Buffalo? Three? If there only three Premier Gourmet-esque stores spread across the entirety of Ontario that would still be better than the LCBO.

This is exactly right IMO. How many liquor/beer stores in New York state have we visited that sell nothing but the big beers. But for every 20+ of these "crap" stores, theres a couple Consumer Beverages and one Premier Gourmet.

And wow the attacks on this forum get personal some times. Lets all just settle down with a beer.

[Torontoblue]

Of course stores would stock macro garbage. Of course the stores that stock macro garbage would be in the majority. Why is this a reason to knock a private retail model? How many great beer stores are in Buffalo? Three? If there only three Premier Gourmet-esque stores spread across the entirety of Ontario that would still be better than the LCBO.

This is exactly right IMO. How many liquor/beer stores in New York state have we visited that sell nothing but the big beers. But for every 20+ of these "crap" stores, theres a couple Consumer Beverages and one Premier Gourmet.

And wow the attacks on this forum get personal some times. Lets all just settle down with a beer.

There's been nothing personal at all.............no special Olympics here. It's a debate, nothing heated, we're all adults.

[RayOhm]

There is NO Utopia people!!!

I don't think anyone disagrees with your here, I just don't understand why we can't want it to be better.

[Torontoblue]

There is NO Utopia people!!!

I don't think anyone disagrees with your here, I just don't understand why we can't want it to be better.

It's a loaded question, I know, but what is better? Each alcohol retail system always has it's pitfalls or interference's.

Tell me, what is better?

[SMC]

Forget retail, how about being able to order alcohol online like the rest of the civilized world can? Even if it was from just from within Canada, federal health standards should be enough. Hell if it was just limited to Ontario at least our breweries would have a chance to sell their entire product line instead of having to deal with limited LCBO releases or outrageous Beer Store fees.

[IPASlav]

I don't care what kind of system we have, but I would rather have one that's looking towards growth and improvement and is committed to getting better beers inside this province, but also supports our local craft brewers.

But isn't this exactly what the LCBO are doing? .

It is what they're doing which is why I think they need to at least be commended for it, rather than having a bunch of people like us, jump down their throats every time they can't get a beer...

[JesseM]

I should add that my main beef with the status quo in Ontario is the prevalence of the Social Responsibility concept. As if Ontario is some sort of safe haven from the evils of over-indulgence, underage drinking, and drinking and driving . Give me a break. I have no patience for the preachy teetotaller lobby*.

*a ficitious term I just came up with

So you've forgotten already that the great super-dooper free retail system in Alberta came within a gnats whisker of banning ALL beers over 11.9%????!!!!????

The Social Responsibility concept in Ontario ignores this when you place private orders.

There is NO Utopia people!!!

First of all I didn't know that. Second of all, I've never stated that Alberta has a super-duper system, I hardly know anything about Alberta's system except that it's private yet still apparently sucks. Thirdly, I wasn't talking about any province besides Ontario. So good sir if you will politely take that chip on your shoulder elsewhere, I would appreciate it.

[JesseM]

While I loved shopping in Montreal this weekend, I realized that while it was thrilling to get stuff we can't get here, there wasn't a WHOLE lot of diversity...nor is there a lot of change when I go there from year to year...In fact, I wonder if I lived there, if I would get bored of the beers and come across the provincial border because there was great southern tier release in ottawa...

What if I wanted a U.S. IPA? Or a classic German weiss, or even something as simple as a hobgoblin or Fuller's London Porter? I've never seen any Garrison in Quebec and they are a stone's throw away. In fact, I find that many Quebeckers don't know a lot about beers outside their own province...

And frankly I would neither want privatization nor nationalization based on "principal". Assuming one is automatically better than the other is silly ideology.

While I agree with your stance on Quebec (though I still like their beer scene a lot), they do have the SAQ to give them some interesting things from around the world.

In defense of my 'silly' ideology, I hate the puritanical mindset that tight government control of alcohol comes from. I hate that some people think privitized alcohol sales will lead to Ontario's immediate descent into the depths of Dante's Inferno.

Also, the word is spelled principle.

[Torontoblue]

I should add that my main beef with the status quo in Ontario is the prevalence of the Social Responsibility concept. As if Ontario is some sort of safe haven from the evils of over-indulgence, underage drinking, and drinking and driving . Give me a break. I have no patience for the preachy teetotaller lobby*.

*a ficitious term I just came up with

So you've forgotten already that the great super-dooper free retail system in Alberta came within a gnats whisker of banning ALL beers over 11.9%????!!!!????

The Social Responsibility concept in Ontario ignores this when you place private orders.

There is NO Utopia people!!!

First of all I didn't know that. Second of all, I've never stated that Alberta has a super-duper system, I hardly know anything about Alberta's system except that it's private yet still apparently sucks. Thirdly, I wasn't talking about any province besides Ontario. So good sir if you will politely take that chip on your shoulder elsewhere, I would appreciate it.

Chip? What chip? You appear to be the one with the chip.

[SteelbackGuy]

While I loved shopping in Montreal this weekend, I realized that while it was thrilling to get stuff we can't get here, there wasn't a WHOLE lot of diversity...nor is there a lot of change when I go there from year to year...In fact, I wonder if I lived there, if I would get bored of the beers and come across the provincial border because there was great southern tier release in ottawa...

What if I wanted a U.S. IPA? Or a classic German weiss, or even something as simple as a hobgoblin or Fuller's London Porter? I've never seen any Garrison in Quebec and they are a stone's throw away. In fact, I find that many Quebeckers don't know a lot about beers outside their own province...

And frankly I would neither want privatization nor nationalization based on "principal". Assuming one is automatically better than the other is silly ideology.

I hate that some people think privitized alcohol sales will lead to Ontario's immediate descent into the depths of Dante's Inferno.

I hate it too, but I also hate that some people think that privitized alcohol sales will suddenly and somehow over night, turn Ontario into some sort of Garden of Eden.

[sprague11]

As great as Quebec is, I have friends in Gatineau that make it a point of coming to Ontario for the LCBO seasonal releases. When they hit Toronto they are amazed that selection and price at the LCBO on Cooper Street, and load up.

When the LCBO had Peche Mortel at 3 bucks a bottle I know someone who drove up from Buffalo and picked up 5 cases worth and laughed like a bandit cause Peche is over 6 bucks a bottle in Buffalo.

Definitely some advangages to the LCBO.

[JesseM]

So you've forgotten already that the great super-dooper free retail system in Alberta came within a gnats whisker of banning ALL beers over 11.9%????!!!!????

The Social Responsibility concept in Ontario ignores this when you place private orders.

There is NO Utopia people!!!

First of all I didn't know that. Second of all, I've never stated that Alberta has a super-duper system, I hardly know anything about Alberta's system except that it's private yet still apparently sucks. Thirdly, I wasn't talking about any province besides Ontario. So good sir if you will politely take that chip on your shoulder elsewhere, I would appreciate it.

Chip? What chip? You appear to be the one with the chip.

You immediately went to the topic of the Alberta system when I hadn't mentioned it, accusing me of 'forgetting' about some potential 11.9% cap on beer. I hadn't forgotten anything because I was unaware in the first place. Perhaps you were just stating it as something to consider rather than 'reminding' me, in which case you should have phrased it differently.