Corner store booze? Yes, please, poll says

[shintriad]

This story has shown up in a few news outlets recently. Here's a good example of coverage:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011 ... 78616.html

Will it turn the tides? Probably not. But the sentiment is there and it can't be ignored forever...can it?

[Tapsucker]

The Star has it with a nice picture of The Granite's pints and some quotes from Muskoka's Gary McMullen. He raises the negative point about availability. It's the big fear I have had with corner store beer too. Just look at Quebec, a pitiful handful of stores with any local beers available.

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/103143 ... urvey?bn=1

[Derek]

I'm not sure about the corner store myself. Ontario really needs private liquor stores though.

In the US, it's pretty cool to walk into a costco and see craft beer. And they're fighting the legislation in Washington:
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Costco- ... 26533.html

But again, they're denying the corner store with the square footage that's proposed.

Oh yeah... another nice article Josh!

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

While corner stores would obviously be limited in their ability to carry good products, the real goal would be legislation that allowed, as Derek mentioned, private retail stores dedicated to finer alcoholic beverages. Of course the next hoop with that would be altering the system so that the proprietors of such places would be able to sell whatever products they wanted, without having to go through such ridiculous things like Social Responsibility and lab tests.

[mintjellie]

While corner stores would obviously be limited in their ability to carry good products, the real goal would be legislation that allowed, as Derek mentioned, private retail stores dedicated to finer alcoholic beverages. Of course the next hoop with that would be altering the system so that the proprietors of such places would be able to sell whatever products they wanted, without having to go through such ridiculous things like Social Responsibility and lab tests.

I've been to corner stores in the states that didn't seem very limited in ability to carry good products.

[JesseM]

Though I would love to see more privitization, I wonder if shelf space would just get eaten up by MolBatts? Just from what I see in Ontario now, that seems likely, though maybe it's a bit pesimistic. It's not as if Quebec is short on macro drinkers, yet there's still plenty of Quebecois micro stuff easily available. Then again I get the impression Quebeckers value their culinary culture more than the average Ontarian does, but perhaps that's a little cynical. At least a lot of the macro stuff in Quebec is sold in hilarious formats like 950mL cans .

Frankly, even if most shelf space got taken up by macro shit, I'd at least appreciate the privitization of beer sales finally being out from under the yolk of our puritanical nanny state of Ontario.

The defense of the current system that pisses me off the most is the erroneous assumption that privitization=more widespread access to booze for minors, thus more underage drinking. Like as if the LCBO is some sort of invaluable bulwark against underage drinking . Speaking from experience, if you're underage and you want booze, you can and will get it quite easily. The flip side to the argument that corner stores would want to make a profit off of underagers, is that they might also want to avoid getting hammered by the police for getting caught selling to minors and thus be far more restrictive than the typical LCBO employee (at 23 I tend to get asked more often for ID depending on how long it's been since I last shaved).

In the end, I still feel like the Anti-Alcohol Gestapo is just too entrenched in Ontario at this point for anything really progressive to happen any time soon .

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

While corner stores would obviously be limited in their ability to carry good products, the real goal would be legislation that allowed, as Derek mentioned, private retail stores dedicated to finer alcoholic beverages. Of course the next hoop with that would be altering the system so that the proprietors of such places would be able to sell whatever products they wanted, without having to go through such ridiculous things like Social Responsibility and lab tests.

I've been to corner stores in the states that didn't seem very limited in ability to carry good products.

I'm sure all of us here have. The beer culture in the United States is also light years ahead of ours. I would wager that the majority of current Ontario convenience store owners would be lacking in the motivation to carry good products.

[mintjellie]

While corner stores would obviously be limited in their ability to carry good products, the real goal would be legislation that allowed, as Derek mentioned, private retail stores dedicated to finer alcoholic beverages. Of course the next hoop with that would be altering the system so that the proprietors of such places would be able to sell whatever products they wanted, without having to go through such ridiculous things like Social Responsibility and lab tests.

I've been to corner stores in the states that didn't seem very limited in ability to carry good products.

I'm sure all of us here have. The beer culture in the United States is also light years ahead of ours. I would wager that the majority of current Ontario convenience store owners would be lacking in the motivation to carry good products.

And as our beer culture slowly develops, we would also eventually reach the point where corner stores start carrying good beer. The marketplace would create the motivation for these stores to find ways to reach around there limitations.

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

I've been to corner stores in the states that didn't seem very limited in ability to carry good products.

I'm sure all of us here have. The beer culture in the United States is also light years ahead of ours. I would wager that the majority of current Ontario convenience store owners would be lacking in the motivation to carry good products.

And as our beer culture slowly develops, we would also eventually reach the point where corner stores start carrying good beer. The marketplace would create the motivation for these stores to find ways to reach around there limitations.

Hopefully the progression of the beer culture would follow that model. In the meantime we need to have fully privately owned stores that are allowed to carry whatever they want.

[xocoatl]

I agree that the majority of stores would likely carry mainly macro product, but you will also get those few stores in each city that fill their shelves with private order products not available at the LCBO. Demand would drive supply/availability.

[Queef]

I recently talked to a brewer in Quebec, and although there is no doubt there is great beer and great micros in Quebec, he told me it's NOT because of the average Quebequers palate. Other than a brew pub, how many quebec bars can you count that carry Charlevoix, or hopfenstark on tap? just as a quick example, not many thats how many. He told me that back in the bad economic times in quebec, wine was considered the "successful" persons drink, and beer was considered white collar, poor mans drink. He said trying to sell kegs at bistros, and bars in montreal is practically impossible if it's anything but a blonde or rousse, and 75% of his market is stateside. St Ambroise, and Boreal are plentiful, cause they put out exactly what the higher end places want to carry. I would guess more Labatt Bleu is consumed in Quebec than any other province in the country. He also said the change in Ontario the past 5 years has been incredible, and the potential for the province based on population, and people WANTING to drink good beer is huge.

[JesseM]

He told me that back in the bad economic times in quebec, wine was considered the "successful" persons drink, and beer was considered white collar, poor mans drink.

I think you mean blue collar.

I would guess more Labatt Bleu is consumed in Quebec than any other province in the country

You mean Molson Ex?

[Queef]

He told me that back in the bad economic times in quebec, wine was considered the "successful" persons drink, and beer was considered white collar, poor mans drink.

I think you mean blue collar.

I would guess more Labatt Bleu is consumed in Quebec than any other province in the country

You mean Molson Ex?

yes, to both of those. thanks. although still alot of Bleau is drunk

[Kel Varnsen]

The defense of the current system that pisses me off the most is the erroneous assumption that privitization=more widespread access to booze for minors, thus more underage drinking. Like as if the LCBO is some sort of invaluable bulwark against underage drinking . Speaking from experience, if you're underage and you want booze, you can and will get it quite easily. The flip side to the argument that corner stores would want to make a profit off of underagers, is that they might also want to avoid getting hammered by the police for getting caught selling to minors and thus be far more restrictive than the typical LCBO employee (at 23 I tend to get asked more often for ID depending on how long it's been since I last shaved).

This idea that private stores would sell more alcohol to minors than the LCBO makes no sense. I mean it seems pretty easy to get around, in that you just have penalties high enough so that the risk of selling a case of beer it totally outweighed by the massive fine, or loss of license, you might get for not carding. So in that respect it would be way more strict than the LCBO, since it is not like the government is going to shut down one of their own stores if it was caught. And unless they could actually prove that an employee was knowingly selling alcohol to minors then I get the feeling that the employees union would totally protect one of their members if accusations were made.

[EricM]

I learned a pile about this when I wrote a paper on this for College. Seems every couple of years someone in government toys with the idea. Though I always thought it strange that the governing body tasked with selling alcohol was also tasked with trying to limit consumption.

Though I think the 'sponsored' corner stores in areas distant from regular Liqueur Outlets/former dry towns was an initial step in this direction.

Also, it's very hard to take a position against MADD, I find when you speak against MADD, people act as if you are for drunk driving. I think the battle for the public's mind has been won.