New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

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midlife crisis
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby midlife crisis » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:43 am

Blasphomet wrote:God I sound like such a picky bastard here lately. Maybe just because I've been spoiling myself with 'brewery only' beer from all over and enjoying the hell out of it.


From Ontario, or elsewhere?
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby TheSevenDuffs » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:25 pm

Blasphomet wrote:Yeah I was hopeful with their whole Farmhouse Series, but each one of them have been pretty meh. Just had the 18 Hands and it was the most meh of them all. Amsterdam are becoming a brewery where I find myself saying "can't love every beer" more and more often.

God I sound like such a picky bastard here lately. Maybe just because I've been spoiling myself with 'brewery only' beer from all over and enjoying the hell out of it.

I can't recall the last time I was excited about an Amsterdam release. They are barely relevant to me anymore. I hope that changes at some point...
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby Orval_Al » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:05 pm

TheSevenDuffs wrote:
Blasphomet wrote:Yeah I was hopeful with their whole Farmhouse Series, but each one of them have been pretty meh. Just had the 18 Hands and it was the most meh of them all. Amsterdam are becoming a brewery where I find myself saying "can't love every beer" more and more often.

God I sound like such a picky bastard here lately. Maybe just because I've been spoiling myself with 'brewery only' beer from all over and enjoying the hell out of it.

I can't recall the last time I was excited about an Amsterdam release. They are barely relevant to me anymore. I hope that changes at some point...


Amsterdam was never that great to begin with. The blonde remains one of the nastiest beers I've had. Big Wheel is hardly better, and Boneshaker is too one dimensional for my taste. I think Fracture is and their dry stout are the only beers I've liked from them. Never understood the hoopla.
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby Craig » Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:53 pm

In fairness, the hoopla was never about the blonde or big wheel. It was about beers like (double) tempest, sour cherry IS and deWallen. They were making those 3-4 years ago when the styles were a lot rarer.

They also had interesting one off releases. Anyone remember Lady Stav and Goedenmorgen?
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby Masterplan » Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:59 pm

Craig wrote:In fairness, the hoopla was never about the blonde or big wheel. It was about beers like (double) tempest, sour cherry IS and deWallen. They were making those 3-4 years ago when the styles were a lot rarer.

They also had interesting one off releases. Anyone remember Lady Stav and Goedenmorgen?

My guess is they did the math, and unless you priced those beers like Nicklebrook, there was no profit in those big beer one offs...so they decided lighter and cheaper was the way to go.
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby BakaGaijin » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:53 pm

Masterplan wrote:
Craig wrote:In fairness, the hoopla was never about the blonde or big wheel. It was about beers like (double) tempest, sour cherry IS and deWallen. They were making those 3-4 years ago when the styles were a lot rarer.

They also had interesting one off releases. Anyone remember Lady Stav and Goedenmorgen?

My guess is they did the math, and unless you priced those beers like Nicklebrook, there was no profit in those big beer one offs...so they decided lighter and cheaper was the way to go.


I doubt it. There is big profits in those beers. There is also risk though. The last bottle Six Boroughs I opened was infected. It was a fizzy sour mess that I had to drain pour. Maybe they are afraid of something similar happening again....or maybe the profits are even bigger making these other beers....
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby A » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:07 pm

Tempest is still a world class imperial stout. Maverick and Gose is by far the best Gose I've ever had.

They can still hit home runs on the specialty beers but the regular lineup is no Bueno :-)
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby Masterplan » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:08 pm

BakaGaijin wrote:
Masterplan wrote:
Craig wrote:In fairness, the hoopla was never about the blonde or big wheel. It was about beers like (double) tempest, sour cherry IS and deWallen. They were making those 3-4 years ago when the styles were a lot rarer.

They also had interesting one off releases. Anyone remember Lady Stav and Goedenmorgen?

My guess is they did the math, and unless you priced those beers like Nicklebrook, there was no profit in those big beer one offs...so they decided lighter and cheaper was the way to go.


I doubt it. There is big profits in those beers. There is also risk though. The last bottle Six Boroughs I opened was infected. It was a fizzy sour mess that I had to drain pour. Maybe they are afraid of something similar happening again....or maybe the profits are even bigger making these other beers....


How so? From my take, the ingredients cost more and the process takes longer, and based on this forum, those interested at such beers aren't willing to pay the premium price, so you'll have limited demand.

Whereas you can make an average beer, with average ingredients, at minimal labour, slap craft beer on it, and it'll appeal to the masses.

There was a method to the Macros business model that works, and big, expensive to produce beer isn't the key to making money.
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby Craig » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:00 pm

Pretty much every brewer I've talked to who works in a brewery of a certain size says the fancy beers don't make them any money. I think the math changes for smaller breweries, but I've never really looked into it.

As a general rule, I have to think that if your brewery is running at capacity, cheap ales are where the money is. Cheap ingredient cost and high volume has got to be where it's at. If you have spare capacity, it might be worth it to let a specialty beer sit in the tanks since the margins are better.
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby CoolB » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:32 am

A wrote:Tempest is still a world class imperial stout. Maverick and Gose is by far the best Gose I've ever had.

They can still hit home runs on the specialty beers but the regular lineup is no Bueno :-)


Agreed with Maverick and Gose. I thoroughly enjoyed that beer however 18 Hands was beyond foul imo.
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby distr0 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:47 am

Maverick and Gose is a collab with GLB too though... And tempest doesn't really exist any more

I forgot about De Wallen, that stuff was fantastic
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby BakaGaijin » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:02 pm

Masterplan wrote:
BakaGaijin wrote:
Masterplan wrote:
I doubt it. There is big profits in those beers. There is also risk though. The last bottle Six Boroughs I opened was infected. It was a fizzy sour mess that I had to drain pour. Maybe they are afraid of something similar happening again....or maybe the profits are even bigger making these other beers....


How so? From my take, the ingredients cost more and the process takes longer, and based on this forum, those interested at such beers aren't willing to pay the premium price, so you'll have limited demand.

Whereas you can make an average beer, with average ingredients, at minimal labour, slap craft beer on it, and it'll appeal to the masses.

There was a method to the Macros business model that works, and big, expensive to produce beer isn't the key to making money.


Let's take a look at the recent Double Tempest release. I believe there were 1200 bottles that were 650ml. They were $15 each. That is $18 000 of revnue.

How much would it cost to brew a 1000 litre batch of stout?!? I have no idea....but it wouldnt be more than $3000 would it?!?

They would need 6 bourbon barrels to age the stout. At $300 a piece that is $1800.

They need space to hold the barrels, however, Amsterdam has plenty of space for 6 measly barrels. No extra cost.

There is no distro fee. No retailer cut.

We are talking about $18 000 revenue and $5000 cost?!? That seems pretty profitable to me.

Look at DDC. They sell bourbon barrel aged Peche Mortel for $5 a bottle! It was $4 a bottle prior to last year. There is money to be made.
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby alsiem » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:09 pm

They also had interesting one off releases.


I remember loving Space Invader. I'd like to see that more often.
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby gordonpeterwiebe » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:12 pm

you are of course forgetting to factor in labour costs, rent, hydro and other overhead, the fact that the equipment being used to make this is not being used to make another more profitable batch and of course the governments cut!
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Re: New Arrivals at LCBO & TBS

Postby Masterplan » Sun Jan 22, 2017 8:49 pm

BakaGaijin wrote:
Masterplan wrote:
BakaGaijin wrote:
I doubt it. There is big profits in those beers. There is also risk though. The last bottle Six Boroughs I opened was infected. It was a fizzy sour mess that I had to drain pour. Maybe they are afraid of something similar happening again....or maybe the profits are even bigger making these other beers....


How so? From my take, the ingredients cost more and the process takes longer, and based on this forum, those interested at such beers aren't willing to pay the premium price, so you'll have limited demand.

Whereas you can make an average beer, with average ingredients, at minimal labour, slap craft beer on it, and it'll appeal to the masses.

There was a method to the Macros business model that works, and big, expensive to produce beer isn't the key to making money.


Let's take a look at the recent Double Tempest release. I believe there were 1200 bottles that were 650ml. They were $15 each. That is $18 000 of revnue.

How much would it cost to brew a 1000 litre batch of stout?!? I have no idea....but it wouldnt be more than $3000 would it?!?

They would need 6 bourbon barrels to age the stout. At $300 a piece that is $1800.

They need space to hold the barrels, however, Amsterdam has plenty of space for 6 measly barrels. No extra cost.

There is no distro fee. No retailer cut.

We are talking about $18 000 revenue and $5000 cost?!? That seems pretty profitable to me.

Look at DDC. They sell bourbon barrel aged Peche Mortel for $5 a bottle! It was $4 a bottle prior to last year. There is money to be made.


A once a year payout of $8-10k (factoring in labour and operating overhead) isn't gonna keep you in business, especially if you have to wait 6 month to a year to see your return.

You need constant sales, and light beers and pale ales are what sells in quantity.

It might be fun to make big beers, but economically given the low demand for $15 beers, it just isn't a money maker.

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