The Bar Towel

True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.

Bellwoods does a ton of such releases a year and Nickel Brook did something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).

There is no reason why Amsterdam can't do these barrel aged beers and do it at a profit IMO. I think the original question was why don't they do them anymore. Maybe they make more money on these other releases the stuff is easier to mass produce and they can use it to expand their market, but, they don't do because they lose money.

BakaGaijin wrote:True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.

...something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).

You're making a valid point but your math is way off.

40,000 x $16 = $640,000 revenue for the LCBO, NOT the brewery

the revenue to NB is the price they sell to the 'BO.
Not to be forgotten are the customer returns (if any complaints for bad product), discounts taken to clear and any other shyte the 'BO charges back to the brewery which further reduce bottom line.

... same for brewery sales to the public out of the bottle shops: part of the sale price is comprised of various taxes. Therefore, the brewery does NOT record the full sell price as revenue.

Masterplan wrote:There is no distro fee.

uhh, can we make this a thing?

BakaGaijin wrote:True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.

Bellwoods does a ton of such releases a year and Nickel Brook did something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).

There is no reason why Amsterdam can't do these barrel aged beers and do it at a profit IMO. I think the original question was why don't they do them anymore. Maybe they make more money on these other releases the stuff is easier to mass produce and they can use it to expand their market, but, they don't do because they lose money.

The argument isn't that you can't make money, it's that you make more money doing other stuff.

Craig wrote:

BakaGaijin wrote:True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.

Bellwoods does a ton of such releases a year and Nickel Brook did something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).

There is no reason why Amsterdam can't do these barrel aged beers and do it at a profit IMO. I think the original question was why don't they do them anymore. Maybe they make more money on these other releases the stuff is easier to mass produce and they can use it to expand their market, but, they don't do because they lose money.

The argument isn't that you can't make money, it's that you make more money doing other stuff.

Fair enough. Rumour is that Amsterdam is actively trying to get bought out by big beer....so making their bottom line as appealing as possible makes sense.

Personally, I have found all of their recent releases very 'meh'. Double Tempest was worst batch ever. Maverik and Gose was gross and thier saisons have been mediocre.

portwood wrote:

BakaGaijin wrote:True....but the argument was that these releases don't make money....but they do.

...something like 40 000 bottles of Kentucky Bastard I think ($640 000 revenue).

You're making a valid point but your math is way off.

40,000 x $16 = $640,000 revenue for the LCBO, NOT the brewery

the revenue to NB is the price they sell to the 'BO.
Not to be forgotten are the customer returns (if any complaints for bad product), discounts taken to clear and any other shyte the 'BO charges back to the brewery which further reduce bottom line.

... same for brewery sales to the public out of the bottle shops: part of the sale price is comprised of various taxes. Therefore, the brewery does NOT record the full sell price as revenue.

Sure, I agree. I'm just pointing out that large volume/revenue is happening in this style. A lot of this beer is actually being sold in Ohio and New York State.

midlife crisis wrote:

Blasphomet wrote: God I sound like such a picky bastard here lately. Maybe just because I've been spoiling myself with 'brewery only' beer from all over and enjoying the hell out of it.

From Ontario, or elsewhere?

Yeah just Ontario. Checking out the new guys like Common Good and Halo along with personal favourites like Burdock and Bellwoods... amongst the many others... and my local 5 Paddles.

Thanks. I haven't ventured out to Common Good or 5 Paddles, must do that. I quite like the other three you mentioned and second your recommendation (re. Bellwoods, the new Hafis Road premises).

Blasphomet wrote:

midlife crisis wrote:

Blasphomet wrote: God I sound like such a picky bastard here lately. Maybe just because I've been spoiling myself with 'brewery only' beer from all over and enjoying the hell out of it.

From Ontario, or elsewhere?

Yeah just Ontario. Checking out the new guys like Common Good and Halo along with personal favourites like Burdock and Bellwoods... amongst the many others... and my local 5 Paddles.

Living in Scarborough I was only really visiting Left Field every few weeks with it being a pretty short drive. I've started going to the Bellwoods now that they opened the Hafis shop but I totally forgot about Common Good and it's the nearest brewery to me. How's the quality there?

Craig wrote:In fairness, the hoopla was never about the blonde or big wheel. It was about beers like (double) tempest, sour cherry IS and deWallen. They were making those 3-4 years ago when the styles were a lot rarer.

They also had interesting one off releases. Anyone remember Lady Stav and Goedenmorgen?

Exactly. I remember when Tempest was first released ... maybe Ontario's first ever bottled imperial stout? At that time, that was awesome! For a while, they were producing some very interesting beer at their former Bathurst Street location, albeit it many of them were extremely limited runs.

Craig wrote:

BakaGaijin wrote:There is no reason why Amsterdam can't do these barrel aged beers and do it at a profit IMO.

The argument isn't that you can't make money, it's that you make more money doing other stuff.

It's degree of profit directly BUT also degree of marketing value for your company's overall profit. Amsterdam has us hardcore Beer Geeks lining up for those few beers now and again, but those of us buying the one-offs and Tempest aren't buying their regular stuff.

So there's no point Amsterdam making a 'flagship' beer the way Goose Island or Samuel Adams does if that costly beer does not have the value of promoting your brand image or by association promoting sales of your other stuff.

Now, I will likely buy Sam Adams Lager or Goose Islands IPA if it's on tap or get it for the cottage, as I have some respect for the mainstream side of the brand and those are very fine highly drinkable beers. The 'regular' Amsterdam brands I like far less and I'd outright avoid them, to be quite honest.
So Utopias or Bourbon County do have promotional value, and Double Tempest really does not - it's not selling me any Big Wheel or Blonde or anything like that (* although how's the Boneshaker doing lately?)
I have the sense Amsterdam has never figured out its ongoing relevance to the 'real' craft beer market, or seen where these other ultra-premium beers tie into it all - that's just my 2 cents.

(* And it's time I ordered a Boneshaker and a Wee Heavy just so I know what's up with them these days.)

TheSevenDuffs wrote:Exactly. I remember when Tempest was first released ... maybe Ontario's first ever bottled imperial stout? At that time, that was awesome! For a while, they were producing some very interesting beer at their former Bathurst Street location, albeit it many of them were extremely limited runs.

Spring Bock the first couple of years was really good. There was a smoked beer -- a porter I think -- that was terrific. A few others. I too am thinking of the Bathurst St days.

Teichert Smoked Porter was kind of a one-off. Haven't seen it in five years maybe?
We've had prior bottled Russian Imperial Stouts - from Wellington, Scotch Irish, and sorta GR Russian Gun.

I notice Russuan Gun is in cans this year.

Belgian wrote:Teichert Smoked Porter was kind of a one-off. Haven't seen it in five years maybe?

Maybe Kyle can brew that at HHOE. The Nightman Cometh was also great, and that was Jeremy's from Barncat.

I believe both won a chance to brew their beer at Amsterdam.