Once again, let me start off by Thanking all the regular Bartowelers, personally I've had an incredibly enjoyable Beer Year, I'm really getting back into Beer again and enjoying so many styles, it's amazing, and I owe it to all of you for the inspiration! All I can say is if any of you started off your Beer Geek experience by trying all the styles, and then settled into a comfort zone, then come back out!! I suppose now that my palette has matured or something, I am really enjoying and appreciating many beers that perhaps 5-10 years ago I didn't.
I was intruiged by everyone on the board talking about this Gueuze lambic syle, and while the name (not sure if it's pronounced like "Ooze", or or More like a German Gootz or what??), regardless of how you pronounce it, I doesn't SOUND tasty, I was curious to try some...
I searched and saw (I'm assuming as part of the Spring release), some was, in fact, available at some Mississauga LCBO's, so I popped over to the one in Meadowvale, and picked up 2 bottles each of the Mort Subite and the St. Louis.
Cracked open a bottle of the Mort Subite tonight... Nice aroma, reminded me VERY MUCH of the Bellevue Kriek, obviously without the Cherry flavour, but very similar (I suppose not that suprising give that it's also a lambic...), but I think this was the first time I'd had a lambic that wasn't a fruit beer, so I wasn't expecting to be so similar. Taste-wise it was sweet, very sweet! To be honest, probably too sweet... This is most certainly a dessert-type beer, I actually split the bottle with my wife, it was nice, quite enjoyable, but really came off almost like a cooler! Due the high sugar content it had almost a bit of a syrupy mouthfeel to it, but at the same time it was a bit fizzy/bubbly too, almost like a champagne. Despite not having any fruit, it does still have a bit of wine or cider-like flavor, I suppose again, due to the lambic-style of yeast(s). All-in-all an interesting brew, certainly enjoyed trying it, but I think I'd like to try another, with a drier flavour and finish...
I'm looking forward to trying the St. Louis, despite the fact that it has pretty horrible reviews on Rate Beer, but still fun for me to get to try a new Style, as there aren't all that many left (certainly not that I can get at the LCBO anyway) that I haven't sampled before...
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We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.
Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
Mort Subite Gueuze
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Steve Beaumont
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:00 pm
- Contact:
Please forgive me in advance for the following rant. Lambics are particularly near and dear to my heart, since I view them as among the most complex and intriguing of all the world's beer styles, and as such I tend to get perhaps a bit overly passionate about them.
With all due respect to their producers and importers, neither Mort Subite nor St. Louis are true lambics. They are well sweetened beers which are meant for the mass market and, I suspect, contain no more than a portion of spontaneously-fermented lambic. (Under Belgian rules, drafted by the very InBev-friendly national government, a beer may be called a lambic so long as it contains at least a small percentage of spontaneously-fermented wheat beer, hence the mostly factory-brewed Belle-Vue line being able to be described as lambics.) While the Mort Subites hint at the underlying complexities of traditional lambic, they are so adulterated that I am told the patriarch of the De Keersmaeker family, which founded the now Alken-Maes owned brewery, refuses to drink them.
A true lambic contains no less than 35% unmalted wheat and is seasoned with aged hops, the latter used for their preservative rather than bittering qualities. Fermentation is all natural and spontaneous, with the beer transferred after the boil into fermenters that resemble large wading pools and airborne yeasts and other critters inoculating the wort overnight. The next step is a long fermentation an conditioning in wooden barrels. For a true gueuze – pronounced with a flat ‘e’ sound in the middle, rather than an ‘oo’ – the final stage is a methode champenoise-style blending and bottle-fermentation.
A true, traditional gueuze will be brutally dry and tart to the palate, resembling more Champagne than any other beer the world has to offer. (This may sound hard to imagine, but I’ve hosted numerous tastings in which I’ve served Champagne and lambic side-by-side and watched as the faces in the audience turned en masse from disbelief to understanding.) Brands to look for include Cantillon (which we have still at beerbistro), De Cam, Drie Fonteinen, Hanssens, Oud Beersel, Girardin and some Boon. As well, I think all of the more commercialized sweetened lambic producers, including Mort Subite and Van Honsebrouck, brewers of St. Louis, make a traditional lambic to complement the rest of their line. Even InBev makes Belle-Vue Selection Lambic, although it’s almost impossible to find outside of the Belle-Vue “showpiece” brewery.
A few years back, I wrote an article for Saveur magazine that offers more details. You can see it online here: http://saveur.com/article.jsp?ID=8728&typeID=100
End of rant. Thank you for your indulgence.
With all due respect to their producers and importers, neither Mort Subite nor St. Louis are true lambics. They are well sweetened beers which are meant for the mass market and, I suspect, contain no more than a portion of spontaneously-fermented lambic. (Under Belgian rules, drafted by the very InBev-friendly national government, a beer may be called a lambic so long as it contains at least a small percentage of spontaneously-fermented wheat beer, hence the mostly factory-brewed Belle-Vue line being able to be described as lambics.) While the Mort Subites hint at the underlying complexities of traditional lambic, they are so adulterated that I am told the patriarch of the De Keersmaeker family, which founded the now Alken-Maes owned brewery, refuses to drink them.
A true lambic contains no less than 35% unmalted wheat and is seasoned with aged hops, the latter used for their preservative rather than bittering qualities. Fermentation is all natural and spontaneous, with the beer transferred after the boil into fermenters that resemble large wading pools and airborne yeasts and other critters inoculating the wort overnight. The next step is a long fermentation an conditioning in wooden barrels. For a true gueuze – pronounced with a flat ‘e’ sound in the middle, rather than an ‘oo’ – the final stage is a methode champenoise-style blending and bottle-fermentation.
A true, traditional gueuze will be brutally dry and tart to the palate, resembling more Champagne than any other beer the world has to offer. (This may sound hard to imagine, but I’ve hosted numerous tastings in which I’ve served Champagne and lambic side-by-side and watched as the faces in the audience turned en masse from disbelief to understanding.) Brands to look for include Cantillon (which we have still at beerbistro), De Cam, Drie Fonteinen, Hanssens, Oud Beersel, Girardin and some Boon. As well, I think all of the more commercialized sweetened lambic producers, including Mort Subite and Van Honsebrouck, brewers of St. Louis, make a traditional lambic to complement the rest of their line. Even InBev makes Belle-Vue Selection Lambic, although it’s almost impossible to find outside of the Belle-Vue “showpiece” brewery.
A few years back, I wrote an article for Saveur magazine that offers more details. You can see it online here: http://saveur.com/article.jsp?ID=8728&typeID=100
End of rant. Thank you for your indulgence.
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Colin @ Canada
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:00 pm
- Location: Kingston, Ontario
I really enjoy the Commercial Lambic range of beers that are available here. Like the Mort Subite range of Gueuze and fruit beers. I have recently become very well aquainted with the Cantillon range of true lambics and find them absolutely delicious. I think the commercial products can act as a stepping stone. If I hadn't first wet my palate with Mort Subite I don't think I would have enjoyed the Cantillon beers nearly as much and would probably have become turned off right away and probably would'nt have given Cantillon a second chance for quite some time.
Colin
(Hey Stephen, which Cantillon beers do you still have in stock at Beer Bistro)
Colin
(Hey Stephen, which Cantillon beers do you still have in stock at Beer Bistro)
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Steve Beaumont
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 7:00 pm
- Contact:
Fair play, Colin, but IMHO, for every person who has their taste buds whetted by Mort Subite or -- Ack! -- Belle-Vue, there are five or ten or more who never go any further and end up believing that the cough syrupy Belle-Vue Kriek is what a true lambic is all about. Meanwhile, great brewers and blenders like Armand Debelder of Drie Fonteinen struggle to carry on because they can't find outlets for their magnificent brands.
(As for the Cantillons at beerbistro, we have the Gueuze, Rose de Gambrinus and a limited amount of the fabulous Fou'Founne left.)
(As for the Cantillons at beerbistro, we have the Gueuze, Rose de Gambrinus and a limited amount of the fabulous Fou'Founne left.)
In my experience the MS Geuze was by far the most "lambicy" of the Mort Subite line. I enjoy the MS Framboise a lot but its hardly a comparison to the Cantillon, and calling it a lambic is pretty borderline.
I have quaffed a few of the Cantillons, and the only one I couldn't stomach was the Geuze. The Lou Pepe Framboise and the Kriek have just enough fruit in them to temper the sour/tart. To my palate the Geuze is akin to pickle juice (in reception not flavour). Not to say I don't appreciate the craft of it, I just really don't like it. (and I have in fact tried it more than a couple times just to see if my thoughts on it change) Its a very aquired taste...
I find it very interesting that lambics are one of the styles that tends to polarize people a lot. Some love it, some hate it, but very few are in the middle ground. The potential scientic discoveries to be gained by exploring the biology and differences in chemical taste reactions in different people here might be intriguing... and I am babbling. Moving along...
I have quaffed a few of the Cantillons, and the only one I couldn't stomach was the Geuze. The Lou Pepe Framboise and the Kriek have just enough fruit in them to temper the sour/tart. To my palate the Geuze is akin to pickle juice (in reception not flavour). Not to say I don't appreciate the craft of it, I just really don't like it. (and I have in fact tried it more than a couple times just to see if my thoughts on it change) Its a very aquired taste...
I find it very interesting that lambics are one of the styles that tends to polarize people a lot. Some love it, some hate it, but very few are in the middle ground. The potential scientic discoveries to be gained by exploring the biology and differences in chemical taste reactions in different people here might be intriguing... and I am babbling. Moving along...
I enjoy the Belle Vue Kriek and the Mort Subite Framboise as well. That's hardly surprising since I drink Dr. Pepper and Cherry Coke/Pepsi so I'm not bothered by any "cough syrupiness" that some people claim. I'll even drink ice wine with dinner. Yum, yum. 
I'd like to try a true lambic but they're hard to come by and I suspect are $$$. I hate spending $8+ for a drink that I wind up not liking and have a hard time finishing.
I'd like to try a true lambic but they're hard to come by and I suspect are $$$. I hate spending $8+ for a drink that I wind up not liking and have a hard time finishing.
lister
What, no Kriek? (Sorry, just couldn't resist.)Steve Beaumont wrote:(As for the Cantillons at beerbistro, we have the Gueuze, Rose de Gambrinus and a limited amount of the fabulous Fou'Founne left.)
I'm with Jeremy about the Mort Subite Gueuze, it's no Cantillon, but in a land with no other Gueuze to be found I'd have it occasionally.
I don't know if it's because I had read so much about lambics before I had actually tried one, but I've loved them from my very first taste of Cantillon Gueuze. Same goes with Rodenbach Grand Cru. I still enjoy the much more fruit accented lambics like Lindeman's and Mort Subite Framboise, and I don't even find Belle Vue Kriek completely horrible. But there's something about that pure, unadulterated (sorry to steal your word Steve) sour funk in Cantillon that's just brilliant. Thankfully, I was lucky enough to get a sample of Rose de Gambrinus last night to sooth my lambic craving for a few weeks anyway.
I finally had the chance to try both the St. Louis, and the Mort Subite Gueuze. I hate to say it, but I was disappointed on both fronts, but particularly with the St. Louis.
The St. Louis gueuze had a difficult to describe, unpleasant sweetness. Not just unpleasant because I didn't expect to find it in a lambic, but unusual as well. It was almost a 'bitter' sweetness, but not a hoppy bitterness. As I said, difficult to describe.
The Mort Subite gueuze was also sweet, but not unpleasant. Just not what I expect in a lambic. I had tried the it in a sampler before, and it was a little better than this one. That was about 2 years ago, so probably a different batch.
Haven't had a chance to try Rose de Gambrinus or Fou'Founne, but hopefully I'll get the chance before it disappears. I do have most of my second case of Cantillon gueuze left.
Still holding out hope for Boon to make a return... Anyone know who the current agent is for Boon? I'd love to try the Mariage Parfait line as well.
As a final comment, it's interesting to note that my remaining bottle of Boon Gueuze (96-97 bottling) is dated best before 2020 while the St. Louis and Mort Subite are best before 2005 and 2006 respectively. Hmmm...
The St. Louis gueuze had a difficult to describe, unpleasant sweetness. Not just unpleasant because I didn't expect to find it in a lambic, but unusual as well. It was almost a 'bitter' sweetness, but not a hoppy bitterness. As I said, difficult to describe.
The Mort Subite gueuze was also sweet, but not unpleasant. Just not what I expect in a lambic. I had tried the it in a sampler before, and it was a little better than this one. That was about 2 years ago, so probably a different batch.
Haven't had a chance to try Rose de Gambrinus or Fou'Founne, but hopefully I'll get the chance before it disappears. I do have most of my second case of Cantillon gueuze left.
Still holding out hope for Boon to make a return... Anyone know who the current agent is for Boon? I'd love to try the Mariage Parfait line as well.
As a final comment, it's interesting to note that my remaining bottle of Boon Gueuze (96-97 bottling) is dated best before 2020 while the St. Louis and Mort Subite are best before 2005 and 2006 respectively. Hmmm...
I think that might have more to do with changes in food labelling laws in Belgium/Europe in the last few years than the beers themselves.Andicus wrote: As a final comment, it's interesting to note that my remaining bottle of Boon Gueuze (96-97 bottling) is dated best before 2020 while the St. Louis and Mort Subite are best before 2005 and 2006 respectively. Hmmm...
