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We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.
Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
Grand River Ploegers Vlaams Rood (Flemish Red Ale)
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midlife crisis
- Beer Superstar
- Posts: 2009
- Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:00 pm
- Location: Toronto
Grand River Ploegers Vlaams Rood (Flemish Red Ale)
Sampled this cask conditioned at Volo tonight and was totally blown away by it. Ralph speculated that now that it is on its third day, it may drinking better than it was when tapped on Friday evening, but whatever the case I thought it was extraordinary today, a unique blend of delicious sour mash flavours and big grapefruit hops. Rhubarb and raspberry jam perhaps (thanks to Toronto Blue for that). Anyway, another great seasonal from Grand River IMO.
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Hamilton Brian
- Posts: 228
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- Location: Hamilton
The girlfriend had this at Volo on Saturday. She's quite the sour fiend and has a deep love of Cantillon so she's been looking forward to trying this since being disappointed by the no-show at C'est What's 20th Anniversary night.
Prior to ordering the Flemish, she had Nickelbrook's Cherry Sour Ale which she liked, more on that in a sec. She wasn't quite ready for the hop level of the Flemish Red but settled into it as she drank. We didn't have the opportunity to check RB or BA for any reviews (if there were any at the time) so the hop level was a bit of a surprise. Comparing the two she liked Nickelbrook's more and had the obligatory curse at the powers-that-be for fucking things over with Cantillon.
Surprise! I didn't like either
but the Double Chocolate Cherry Stout, Mild and Philip's Double Chocolate Porter (any Ontario agents?!) were working well for me.
Prior to ordering the Flemish, she had Nickelbrook's Cherry Sour Ale which she liked, more on that in a sec. She wasn't quite ready for the hop level of the Flemish Red but settled into it as she drank. We didn't have the opportunity to check RB or BA for any reviews (if there were any at the time) so the hop level was a bit of a surprise. Comparing the two she liked Nickelbrook's more and had the obligatory curse at the powers-that-be for fucking things over with Cantillon.
Surprise! I didn't like either
but the Double Chocolate Cherry Stout, Mild and Philip's Double Chocolate Porter (any Ontario agents?!) were working well for me.lister
THIS IS SO BIZARRE.
So I was just at the Castle with my Dad (lovely evening pub crawl actually), and the Flander's Red was NOT on tap yet. I asked Harold and he said Rob/Bob haven't called or delivered it yet.
I know it's coming sooner than later, but I still find it kind of bizarre that the GTA got it before GRB's own local. Weird. Ah well.
I had some Corporal Punishment from a cask instead. Damn, that's a good brew/pint.
So I was just at the Castle with my Dad (lovely evening pub crawl actually), and the Flander's Red was NOT on tap yet. I asked Harold and he said Rob/Bob haven't called or delivered it yet.
I know it's coming sooner than later, but I still find it kind of bizarre that the GTA got it before GRB's own local. Weird. Ah well.
I had some Corporal Punishment from a cask instead. Damn, that's a good brew/pint.
I was lucky to get a taste when I was in town saturday. It's up to 7% and definitely interesting. It's pretty dry, with a light bitter/sour balance. Like their other brews, there's certainly some hop flavour. I thought the slight steelie-grassyness might've been some saaz, but Rob said was it was actually warrior. An interesting new-world twist on a Belgian classic. It had a nice fruitiness too... I wonder what yeast they used?
With the sour mash, you're really at the mercy of what's naturally in your malt. This had a very pleasant sourness. I'm assuming the lactobacillus wasn't too crazy and thankfully there wasn't any enteric qualities here!
I wouldn't want to bring Brett into a brewery, but afterwards I was thinking... if the bottling/kegging was done off-site, you could always do some one-offs and add it then (ala Orval), and tuck it away in someone else's cellar for 6 months or so...
With the sour mash, you're really at the mercy of what's naturally in your malt. This had a very pleasant sourness. I'm assuming the lactobacillus wasn't too crazy and thankfully there wasn't any enteric qualities here!
I wouldn't want to bring Brett into a brewery, but afterwards I was thinking... if the bottling/kegging was done off-site, you could always do some one-offs and add it then (ala Orval), and tuck it away in someone else's cellar for 6 months or so...
The red is going to be around for a while so don't squirt your depens if you haven't had it yet. 
Bob is looking around at larger bottles ( like sparkling wine bottles) to put some up in and get it out...seems samples have been submitted to the LCBO lab so I suspect there may be an LCBO listing for this one soon.
Bob is looking around at larger bottles ( like sparkling wine bottles) to put some up in and get it out...seems samples have been submitted to the LCBO lab so I suspect there may be an LCBO listing for this one soon.
Aventinus rules!
Is it possible to have a horrifyingly and painfully bad reaction to this beer if you are lactose intolerant? I didn't think I was lactose intolerant, because I can drink milk easily/eat cheese like crazy, but my Dad is a little lactose intolerant, so I may have inherited a bit of it.
See, Harold gave me a half pint last night of this stuff. I've never had a worse reaction to a beer before. My body flat out rejected it from my system. I was up all night vomiting my guts out. I literally couldn't keep anything down until around 11am, even just water. I'd had a fair amount of beer prior to this half pint, but not enough to really put me away (although I'd gone to the Castle right after swim practice, and hadn't had much of anything to eat all day). But while I was throwing up everything but my internal organs, all I could taste was, guess what, CHEESE. Cheese flavours that I'm assuming could only come from a beer that contains lactic bacteria. Theoretically, isn't a sour ale just alcoholic milk-gone-bad? Think about it, it's lactic bacteria that's left to sit around for long periods of time. But neither Leifmans Kriek or Petrus Oud Bruin had any negative effect on me anywhere near this one. Or am I maybe allergic to Brett? Is there a difference between the lactate in milk/cheese and the lactic bacteria used in beer? (and what about lactic acid build up in fatigued muscles? what the hell is that?)
I don't know what happened exactly. But just thinking about the flavours of this beer honestly makes me pretty nauseous now. I liked it at the time though. But I'm making myself sick again just thinking about it. I'm actually still not 100% recovered. I can't have this one EVER again. NEVER EVER. Even the smell would set me off
. Man, what a disaster eh?
See, Harold gave me a half pint last night of this stuff. I've never had a worse reaction to a beer before. My body flat out rejected it from my system. I was up all night vomiting my guts out. I literally couldn't keep anything down until around 11am, even just water. I'd had a fair amount of beer prior to this half pint, but not enough to really put me away (although I'd gone to the Castle right after swim practice, and hadn't had much of anything to eat all day). But while I was throwing up everything but my internal organs, all I could taste was, guess what, CHEESE. Cheese flavours that I'm assuming could only come from a beer that contains lactic bacteria. Theoretically, isn't a sour ale just alcoholic milk-gone-bad? Think about it, it's lactic bacteria that's left to sit around for long periods of time. But neither Leifmans Kriek or Petrus Oud Bruin had any negative effect on me anywhere near this one. Or am I maybe allergic to Brett? Is there a difference between the lactate in milk/cheese and the lactic bacteria used in beer? (and what about lactic acid build up in fatigued muscles? what the hell is that?)
I don't know what happened exactly. But just thinking about the flavours of this beer honestly makes me pretty nauseous now. I liked it at the time though. But I'm making myself sick again just thinking about it. I'm actually still not 100% recovered. I can't have this one EVER again. NEVER EVER. Even the smell would set me off
. Man, what a disaster eh?
I think I'm finally immune to influenza after being perpetually sick for 6 months .
I could really tell it was the sour ale that doomed me. My system is messed up a bit still because I ate virtually nothing for a day, then ate bread and drank coke all today. I really just feel like I have indigestion now. Bad cheese!
. I could really tell it was the sour ale that doomed me. My system is messed up a bit still because I ate virtually nothing for a day, then ate bread and drank coke all today. I really just feel like I have indigestion now. Bad cheese!
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markaberrant
- Seasoned Drinker
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- Location: Regina, SK
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Rob Creighton
- Bar Fly
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- Location: Dundas, ON
Well, of course I had to try it. I had a half of Rood at the Castle (which, by the way, is served in a unique Euro chalice by Harold) and I followed it with a pint of Plowman's. It turned out to be a great combo (but I'm biased). I ate a spicy chili for dinner after that. Thus far, no ill effects.
For clarification, I did not use the brett yeast because I didn't want to introduce it to the brewery. At the same time (October), I heard the end result of John's effort and this convinced me. I like blue cheese but only on the food side. I simply soured the mash using the natural bacteria in the malt and went from there. We don't have the Belgian advantage of brewing normal ale into ancient barrels and allowing the wood to sour the ale so I had to improvise. After fermentation at 5% abv, the beer was very fruity and red wine like.
We concentrated the beer by freezing the tank and removing the concentrated beer from the ice. We started with 12HL x 4 brews and ended up with 26HL after removing the ice. The LCBO is telling us the abv is just over 7% but I don't believe them. A number of brewer's including Perry when he was at Heritage have questioned the results we are receiving from the LCBO. We are having it independently tested.
Hope you're feeling better Jesse and if I ever meet you at the Castle, I'll buy you a pint (but not of the Rood of course). Cheers!
For clarification, I did not use the brett yeast because I didn't want to introduce it to the brewery. At the same time (October), I heard the end result of John's effort and this convinced me. I like blue cheese but only on the food side. I simply soured the mash using the natural bacteria in the malt and went from there. We don't have the Belgian advantage of brewing normal ale into ancient barrels and allowing the wood to sour the ale so I had to improvise. After fermentation at 5% abv, the beer was very fruity and red wine like.
We concentrated the beer by freezing the tank and removing the concentrated beer from the ice. We started with 12HL x 4 brews and ended up with 26HL after removing the ice. The LCBO is telling us the abv is just over 7% but I don't believe them. A number of brewer's including Perry when he was at Heritage have questioned the results we are receiving from the LCBO. We are having it independently tested.
Hope you're feeling better Jesse and if I ever meet you at the Castle, I'll buy you a pint (but not of the Rood of course). Cheers!
I am feeling better Rob, thanks for asking. I would appreciate that pint actually! I think it'd be kind of cool to have a legitimate brewer actually buy ME a pint (downright surreal if it was a pint of a GR brew ).
I find with Belgian beers, they tend to be a hit and miss sort of thing for me. There's the odd examples that I learn to love in time, but they are the exceptions. Sour ales probably just aren't my thing.
I had my first bottle of Orval last night. It didn't blow me away quite like I was hoping. It was still decent, but it's way too dry IMHO. Usually I don't like beers that make you forget that you just consumed a LIQUID (the tongue is out because it needs moisture ). Call me crazy, but I almost found some similarities between Orval and the GR Rood. Minor similarities, but the spicy aspects of Orval were on par with the first half of the flavour experience of the Rood. Call me crazy.
). I find with Belgian beers, they tend to be a hit and miss sort of thing for me. There's the odd examples that I learn to love in time, but they are the exceptions. Sour ales probably just aren't my thing.
I had my first bottle of Orval last night. It didn't blow me away quite like I was hoping. It was still decent, but it's way too dry IMHO. Usually I don't like beers that make you forget that you just consumed a LIQUID
(the tongue is out because it needs moisture ). Call me crazy, but I almost found some similarities between Orval and the GR Rood. Minor similarities, but the spicy aspects of Orval were on par with the first half of the flavour experience of the Rood. Call me crazy.Without geeking out too much, here's some quick answers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acid_fermentation
In short, it's EXTREMELY unlikely to make you sick. If you had acid reflux, I guess the increased acidity could potentially be a problem, but it's doubtful.
Moreover, malolactic fermentation is often used by wineries to dry out the wine & make sure fermentation has ceased (all the sugars are consumed) before it's bottled (or it'll blow the cork & be wasted):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolactic_fermentation
Although wineries do this after the primary fermenation is complete, Rob did a sour mash upfront. This is similar to how German brewers use acidulated malt to lower mash pH, while maintaining the the good old Reinheitsgebot. Everything is 'pasteurized' during the wort boil, so you get the acidity, but there isn't any bacteria left.
Guinness actually makes a sour batch, pasteurizes it, then blends it back into their stout for their signature tang (when they eliminated the wooden barrels, it supposedly didn't taste right).
So yes, your body makes lactic acid, it's found in some wines & beers (though typically not at this concentration), and it's probably not going to make you sick.
Some wild brews (like Jolly Pumpkin) turn my stomach, but they've got a lot more funk going on! These are finished in the barrel & still 'living' as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactic_acid_fermentation
In short, it's EXTREMELY unlikely to make you sick. If you had acid reflux, I guess the increased acidity could potentially be a problem, but it's doubtful.
Moreover, malolactic fermentation is often used by wineries to dry out the wine & make sure fermentation has ceased (all the sugars are consumed) before it's bottled (or it'll blow the cork & be wasted):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolactic_fermentation
Although wineries do this after the primary fermenation is complete, Rob did a sour mash upfront. This is similar to how German brewers use acidulated malt to lower mash pH, while maintaining the the good old Reinheitsgebot. Everything is 'pasteurized' during the wort boil, so you get the acidity, but there isn't any bacteria left.
Guinness actually makes a sour batch, pasteurizes it, then blends it back into their stout for their signature tang (when they eliminated the wooden barrels, it supposedly didn't taste right).
So yes, your body makes lactic acid, it's found in some wines & beers (though typically not at this concentration), and it's probably not going to make you sick.
Some wild brews (like Jolly Pumpkin) turn my stomach, but they've got a lot more funk going on! These are finished in the barrel & still 'living' as well.
I had a few ample sized glasses with Rob last Friday, and was very impressed. It came from a growler, not a tap (is it on tap, or just cask?), and had sat for at least a day after being opened. The acidity was mellowed somewhat, but the berry sour was still in behind the malt. A good level of hops for something this sour, very noticeable, but not overpowering.
I just opened the growler I bought tonight, and it is a very different flavour. The sourness is very upfront, followed by the bitterness of the hops. I am going to have another glass, and leave the rest for Saturday afternoon, and see how it progresses.
I will likely mix a small glass with some Mill Race Mild, as I have done that with the Pumpkin, and Jubilation. I prefered them both mixed down 50/50.
I just opened the growler I bought tonight, and it is a very different flavour. The sourness is very upfront, followed by the bitterness of the hops. I am going to have another glass, and leave the rest for Saturday afternoon, and see how it progresses.
I will likely mix a small glass with some Mill Race Mild, as I have done that with the Pumpkin, and Jubilation. I prefered them both mixed down 50/50.