ORVAL - Then & Now

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:50 pm

Cracked open an 07/2004 and an 09/2008.

Like two different beers!

They say every batch or Orval is different, and Im no expert.

The July 2004 is noticeable more fruity and 'evolved' with balancing sweetness, and a very nice wine-like acidity over it, very solid and complex. It also looks a tone darker and has obviously dropped clearer in transparency.

The Sept 2008 is incredibly dry, verging on thin and almost unpleasantly bitter, with a huge amount of carbonation. I could be re-trying this 2008 closer to the end of the year VS the remaining bottle of 2004. The hop bitterness is gone postal and those sweet fruits (if they are lurking underneath) may need time to show.

What surprises me is I no longer find this beer 'medicinal' in the almost bandaid-like flavors. I recall very distinctly the first time I fully enjoyed an Orval (LOL) and it was a 1-or-2 year aged bottle... it just had so many layers. I got past all the funk, brett and other quirks of this singular Belgian that were once off-putting to my newbie palate.

I hope this new batch is equally brilliant when it settles down. In Belgium they charge an extra Euro for year-old Orval, I can see why! But still... in several tries over the Xmas cruise I don't remember a bottle THIS dry - only time wil tell!!

Jan Primus · Post by **Jan Primus** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:55 am

Thanks for the report B...Funny I just had my first bottle from this release and I was thinkin it wasn't as DRY as I remember...but mostly I felt that my palate had finally appreciated this beer. When I think Orval, DRY is the first thing that comes to mind...followed by metallic and hoppy. Didn't love it the first time I tried it but sure has grown on me.

austin · Post by **austin** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:21 pm

Of all the Trappist ales, Orval is my least favourite. Perhaps expectations are too high but always willing to give it another try.

matt7215 · Post by **matt7215** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:19 pm

The current batch of Orval we have at the LCBO is mind blowing. It super dry and the brett is really up front. I love my Orval when its drinking like this but I look forward to seeing it develope.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:41 am

austin wrote:Of all the Trappist ales, Orval is my least favourite. Perhaps expectations are too high but always willing to give it another try.

Well it IS your favorite you just don't know it yet, LOL!!

Having another bottle tonight I agree with matt this batch is sensorium-exploding. M Jackson's book GBOB* says Orval used to be firmer and dryer (and the hops have been changed) but I dunno, the way they make it today is downright stunning and while some may or may not like it, the beer is unabashedly authentic beyond question.

* Great Beers of Belgium. The Abbey itself claims that Orval has been 'cleaned up and toned down' (MJ says it would lose its magic with "any further cosmetic surgery") and also say people don't want it to taste exactly the same every time, much in the way we like wine vintages from a favorite region to express variation.

cirrosis · Post by **cirrosis** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:37 pm

does anyone remember that batch a few years ago that was reminiscent of sweaty armpit?

JesseM · Post by **JesseM** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:43 pm

Its always like that. Brettanomyces (sp) yeast imparts tons of weird characteristics like sweaty armpit to one degree or another. The smell of sweat can also be found in some sour beers because the bacterial culture on your skin that causes the odor is used in the production of some cheeses and I can only assume beers. I`m not an expert on all this by any means, but I know sweaty armpit is not an unusual characteristic of beers like Orval, and for some reason it isn`t gross!

boney · Post by **boney** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:08 pm

I recently did a side-by-side of last years Orval and the ones arriving at the LCBO this year. After only one year they were ridiculously different beers and I can only imagine what it would be like after 4 years. I totally dig the uncontrolled nature of the fresher version. It's like a beer that lashes out all over the place with huge hops, wierd Brett notes and minerals all going crazy before the beer actually decides what it wants to be when it grows up. The 1 year version is mellower and definitely more layered, with fruits and breads starting to meld in with the other flavours. Delicious and equally appealing.

JesseM wrote:Its always like that. Brettanomyces (sp) yeast imparts tons of weird characteristics like sweaty armpit to one degree or another. The smell of sweat can also be found in some sour beers because the bacterial culture on your skin that causes the odor is used in the production of some cheeses and I can only assume beers. I`m not an expert on all this by any means, but I know sweaty armpit is not an unusual characteristic of beers like Orval, and for some reason it isn`t gross!

This is interesting stuff. Beer nerd/biology nerd question here. What are the bacteria on both skin and beer that give the armpit smell....Jesse or anyone? I know Proprionibacteria are partially responsible for B.O., but that lactobacillus (also found in the mouth and female reproductive tract) are often used to sour beers. Do you mean one of these? Both? Cool stuff.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:44 am

I might differentiate between 'armpit smell' (which from a human can be anything from skunky sulfur compounds to almost chili-like funk smells that may serve as an olfactory magnet to the opposite sex) and body odor or 'flop sweat' (which seems to have rotten-peas or sour / rancid-sebum overtones.)

But I am no scientist! All I can say is I've never found Orval 'sweaty' and that my friend is just one man's perception of this weird wonderful beer.

One beer I DID find hugely biological (sweaty spitty and tanky) was the Rittersgut Göse I drank in Leipzing last summer. But the sour strawberry/rhubarb overtones which dialed in later made this sour, almost thin beer unexpectedly wonderful.

carguy · Post by **carguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:45 am

I just finished an Orval that I bought at the LCBO last week. Wow. The first thing I noticed was the aroma. I hadn't even poured it yet, just removing the cap released the most wonderful scent. It poured with an excessive amount of head. Not sure why. It was right from my cellar, about 14° at the moment. Flavour is funky, earthy, chewey, with a very dry finish. Fantastic stuff. Too bad it's only here for a short time. Stupid LCBO.

Bobsy · Post by **Bobsy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:52 am

While I can't comment on how this batch of orval holds up to previous ones, I can comment on how my impressions of orval have changed as I became more familiar and comfortable with a greater range of flavours in my beer. Coming from the UK, I had never come across a bottle of beer that contained the flavours that orval does. The funkiness was weird, and I was undecided on whether it added or subtracted from the beer, and the dryness was the over-riding feature that prevented me from buying and drinking more of this beer.

Like I said though, in the past year and a half I've made it my mission to try a ridiculous amount of beers and hunt down the very best example of the many styles I became aware of. The Saison St-Louis at Dieu du Ciel opened my eyes to the glory of funk, and I've never looked back. Enter Orval from stage right. I intially gave the beer a B grade. My re-review gives it an A+:

This is a bizarre beer, full of character, complexity and curiosity.

It pours a cloudy orange with a cumulonimbus of white head, that leaves huge gobs of foam on the side of the glass. Holy shit...its a beast of a beer to look at, but then when you get your nose in there its just mindblowing. The aroma is pure brett - cider, stable and leather. I've heard people say horseblanket, and though I've never been that close, I can agree that Orval probably does smell a bit like Mr. Ed's comforter. The taste is really funky, with spicy, fruity and herbal hints popping up. Lots of leather, cider and hay. Oh, and did I say funk? Later on it transitions to a lemon soapiness. What a complex and confusing beer this is!The mouthfeel and carbonation is remarkably soft and smooth for a lighter bodied beer. Wow, is it ever drying. More so than any other beer I've had.

A strange brew for sure, and stylistically leagues apart from its Trappist brethren. I didn't 'get' this beer in the past - it seemed like a strange goose and on the knife edge between love and hate. Over time, taste changes and the palate develops. Orval is a beast of a beer, and a classic. Everyone should try it.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:02 pm

carguy wrote: It poured with an excessive amount of head. Not sure why............... Too bad it's only here for a short time. Stupid LCBO.

I suspect the ongoing re-fermentation in the bottle causes the huge foamy pour of the present 2008 vintage. The 2004 was a lot better-behaved as well as more integrated.

As far as stupid lcbo, you can always choose to stock up on Orval now and watch it evolve from wonderful wildness to refined balance. Even drinking it later this year will make quite a difference.

carguy · Post by **carguy** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:44 pm

I should get some soon too, as I see my local LCBO is almost out of Orval. I'm looking forward to seeing how it ages.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:45 pm

There are about 350 cases of 12 in various LCBO warehouses. As usual, the stores are not re-ordering even though they sell out of the 1 or 2 cases they get. If you want some, ask your store manager to order it as there is plenty available and it will probably just sit there as no one wants to bother re-ordering. There is no incentive for stores to be proactive with the seasonal beer programme. Either the store has someone who champions beer or it just doesn't give a s$*t. This is the glory of a monopoly.

nickelass · Post by **nickelass** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:56 pm

Can a store that does not run the seasonal beer program still order this for me? I keep getting the "because we don't carry it, we can't order it in." Which to me doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I should probably ask to speak to someone in charge.