Flying Monkeys Alpha Fornication

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SteelbackGuy
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Flying Monkeys Alpha Fornication

Postby SteelbackGuy » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:36 am

Here's my review from RB

"
Tap at Gambrinus Bistro- Probably one of the murkiest beers I have seen. Like a pea soup, a completely cloudy brindle with a one finger head of white froth, and loads of floaties. Surprisingly fruity nose is the dominant feature. Loads of nectarine, pear, mango, and lychee with little in the way of pine or citrus, and a mild resiny/floral hop character. The flavour on the other is just plain bitter hops with medium sweetness and a slight tartness towards the end, reminiscent of an aged cheddar. It really is the bitterest thing I’ve ever had. Imagine drinking a hop shake, or hop juice and you’re in the ballpark. Soft carbonation,absolutely full bodied, oily, thick, sticky, completely mouth coating. Not really all that drinkable, but I am judging this beer, not based on session beer standards, but as a sipper. The finish does not go away for at least 30 minutes, and even then you’ve still got the hop burps for some time. 2-3 Oz is likely all you’ll need, though I finished my full sample. Could work as a whisky replacement in the winter time. A neat experiment. Kudos to the Monkeys!"
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:32 am

While I am at it, I must say I am quite dismayed at the lack of support coming from the "beer experts" when it comes to this beer.
I've read 4 or 5 stories covering this beer now, and not a one has said anything positive. Just nonsense, negative comments, conjecture, and tippy- toeing around saying much.

I am disappointed with the fact that immediately the nay-sayers came out and started complaining and bitching about this beer. 10 years ago this would likely have been viewed as impossible. An Ontario micro trying to make an uber-hoppy beer. One that is theoretically one of the hoppiest ever. But today it is happening, and our brewers have come along way.
So I urge our "experts" to stop pretending like they are scientists, and to start actually having positive reinforcement of exciting things our brewers are doing.
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Postby JerCraigs » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:37 am

So you're saying these people should treat Flying Monkeys differently than they treated the Brew Dog beers? Because it is getting the same sort of skeptical responses that they did for the most part.

Whether or not its fair to talk about a beer you haven't tried yet is another question I guess.
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:58 am

JerCraigs wrote:So you're saying these people should treat Flying Monkeys differently than they treated the Brew Dog beers? Because it is getting the same sort of skeptical responses that they did for the most part.

Whether or not its fair to talk about a beer you haven't tried yet is another question I guess.


Pretty much.

I mean, why rain on someone's parade before the parade even starts? We tend to jump all over brewers before we even try the product (myself included), and I think it should stop.

If FM wants to brew something insane, then let them. "Experts" filling the air with conjecture and double speak does nothing.
I've seen a lot of quotes from other brewers and these so called "experts" saying stuff like ....

"Ohh it's a publicity stunt"

Well maybe it is. But who cares?Maybe you're pissed cause you didn't thik about the idea first. It doesn't have any effect on your life so if FM wants to do a stunt, then let them. It is a cost to them make the beer, they can do whatever the hell they want.

I am extremely disappointed in a lot of the community members who have a hate on for brewers that are trying interesting things. 10 years ago this stuff was never happening and the same "experts" would have praised the move.
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Postby Malcolm » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:02 pm

Or maybe it's just not that good and people don't want to slag it publicly. I don't like any Flying Monkees beer I've tried, but it seems like this brewery gets treated with kid gloves.
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:21 pm

Malcolm wrote:Or maybe it's just not that good and people don't want to slag it publicly. I don't like any Flying Monkees beer I've tried, but it seems like this brewery gets treated with kid gloves.


Most people haven't had the beer. Plus, that isn't what I am talking about. I am talking about people slagging the brewery publically for doing a fun experiment. I think it's a weak, bitch ass move and I am disturbed by it. I'd be saying this if were any brewery being slagged without warrant.


Let's say for argument's sake, Great Lakes wants to brew "the strongest beer ever brewed in Ontario". I'd say good for them. And if I were a media "expert" or even another brewer, I certainly wouldn't pulically chastise them for wanting to have a little fun.
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Postby Ralphus » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:00 pm

I agree with you Steelbackguy. They're pushing boundaries and that's a good thing.
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Postby Steve Beaumont » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:12 am

Not sure if you're referring at all to my turn in The Star, Len, but I'll defend all my quotes from that story. I believe the creation of that beer is marketing over brewing, and I also think it's great that Ontario brewers are starting to work outside of their comfort zones.

And I hope it doesn't result in a hops war.

Incidentally, I was on the phone with the Star reporter for at least a half-hour in order, from which she pulled the few quotes she used. Such is the way things go when you have a relatively high profile in the beer world -- reporters call looking for comments and I do my best to help them out and make their story work. That said, she tried several times to get me to speculate on what the beer might taste like and each time I steadfastly refused.
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:55 am

Steve Beaumont wrote:Not sure if you're referring at all to my turn in The Star, Len, but I'll defend all my quotes from that story. I believe the creation of that beer is marketing over brewing, and I also think it's great that Ontario brewers are starting to work outside of their comfort zones.

And I hope it doesn't result in a hops war.

Incidentally, I was on the phone with the Star reporter for at least a half-hour in order, from which she pulled the few quotes she used. Such is the way things go when you have a relatively high profile in the beer world -- reporters call looking for comments and I do my best to help them out and make their story work. That said, she tried several times to get me to speculate on what the beer might taste like and each time I steadfastly refused.


Your personal quotes are fine Stephen. I respect that you would not speculate on the beer because that is exactly what I am talking about. Everything you've written (that I've read) is balanced and very fair, with an experienced objectivity.

Actually, a couple of the quotes from that story including ones from Mr. Oliver and the one from Mr. Stewart are the exact thing I am talking about though. Raining on the parade before the parade even starts. Speculation and conjecture. I have lost respect for both men. Not that my opinion is valued anyway, I'm just saying is all.
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Postby mistermurphy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:43 am

I fail to see anything wrong with the following quote:

“Absolute rubbish,” says Graham Stewart, director of the International Centre for Brewing and Distilling at Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh. “Why would anyone want to profess that they have brewed a 2500 IBU beer? Anyway it’s chemically impossible.”

On a homebrew size scale, they made a very hoppy beer, something i imagine hundreds of other homebrewers have already done.

Essentially a glass full of isomerized hop extract and a drop of beer is the worlds most bitter beer.



SteelbackGuy wrote:
Steve Beaumont wrote:Not sure if you're referring at all to my turn in The Star, Len, but I'll defend all my quotes from that story. I believe the creation of that beer is marketing over brewing, and I also think it's great that Ontario brewers are starting to work outside of their comfort zones.

And I hope it doesn't result in a hops war.

Incidentally, I was on the phone with the Star reporter for at least a half-hour in order, from which she pulled the few quotes she used. Such is the way things go when you have a relatively high profile in the beer world -- reporters call looking for comments and I do my best to help them out and make their story work. That said, she tried several times to get me to speculate on what the beer might taste like and each time I steadfastly refused.


Your personal quotes are fine Stephen. I respect that you would not speculate on the beer because that is exactly what I am talking about. Everything you've written (that I've read) is balanced and very fair, with an experienced objectivity.

Actually, a couple of the quotes from that story including ones from Mr. Oliver and the one from Mr. Stewart are the exact thing I am talking about though. Raining on the parade before the parade even starts. Speculation and conjecture. I have lost respect for both men. Not that my opinion is valued anyway, I'm just saying is all.
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Postby Flood » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:50 am

mistermurphy wrote:I fail to see anything wrong with the following quote:

“Absolute rubbish,” says Graham Stewart, director of the International Centre for Brewing and Distilling at Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh. “Why would anyone want to profess that they have brewed a 2500 IBU beer? Anyway it’s chemically impossible.”

On a homebrew size scale, they made a very hoppy beer, something i imagine hundreds of other homebrewers have already done.

Essentially a glass full of isomerized hop extract and a drop of beer is the worlds most bitter beer.



SteelbackGuy wrote:
Steve Beaumont wrote:Not sure if you're referring at all to my turn in The Star, Len, but I'll defend all my quotes from that story. I believe the creation of that beer is marketing over brewing, and I also think it's great that Ontario brewers are starting to work outside of their comfort zones.

And I hope it doesn't result in a hops war.

Incidentally, I was on the phone with the Star reporter for at least a half-hour in order, from which she pulled the few quotes she used. Such is the way things go when you have a relatively high profile in the beer world -- reporters call looking for comments and I do my best to help them out and make their story work. That said, she tried several times to get me to speculate on what the beer might taste like and each time I steadfastly refused.


Your personal quotes are fine Stephen. I respect that you would not speculate on the beer because that is exactly what I am talking about. Everything you've written (that I've read) is balanced and very fair, with an experienced objectivity.

Actually, a couple of the quotes from that story including ones from Mr. Oliver and the one from Mr. Stewart are the exact thing I am talking about though. Raining on the parade before the parade even starts. Speculation and conjecture. I have lost respect for both men. Not that my opinion is valued anyway, I'm just saying is all.


We didn't use any hop extract.
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Postby JerCraigs » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:09 am

SteelbackGuy wrote:Actually, a couple of the quotes from that story including ones from Mr. Oliver and the one from Mr. Stewart are the exact thing I am talking about though. Raining on the parade before the parade even starts. Speculation and conjecture. I have lost respect for both men. Not that my opinion is valued anyway, I'm just saying is all.


Seriously?

Len, I mostly get where you are coming from, and I agree that it is awesome that Flying Monkey's is trying all this new stuff, and it would be nice for people to support it. That said, what your saying right now is basically this:

- The director of a well regarded brewing institute and a well known high profile American brewer (who has made no secret of the fact that he has little interest in "extreme" beer many many times in the past.) were asked there opinion of a limited release beer that neither had tasted, and had probably not heard of prior to being called by the reporter (from a paper that they may or may not be familiar with.

- They were presented with a statement about the IBUs of the beer that they considered so outrageous, that they reacted the way they did. (similar to the reaction that others have posted on Bartowel). The idea that there is a maximum to both a) the level of bitterness that can be absorbed by a beer and b) the bitterness that can be tasted by humans are both fairly well known.

- Their dismissiveness upsets you.


I highly doubt that Flying Monkey's is upset about making the papers with the beer. They may not love the specific quotes (I'll let them speak on their own behalf since they frequent the board) but I would speculate that the publiciity they have received was well worth the effort put into making the beer.

I was going to refer you to Mr. Beaumont's posts on the various BrewDog beers but he has already posted in this thread. In fact, I suggest that if the reactions of Stewart and Oliver might even be partly influenced by the promotion of beers like Brew Dog. E.g. This is likely not the first time those men have been contacted about the latest shiniest hoppiest strongest darkest coldest new brew.
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:53 am

JerCraigs wrote:
SteelbackGuy wrote:Actually, a couple of the quotes from that story including ones from Mr. Oliver and the one from Mr. Stewart are the exact thing I am talking about though. Raining on the parade before the parade even starts. Speculation and conjecture. I have lost respect for both men. Not that my opinion is valued anyway, I'm just saying is all.


Seriously?

Len, I mostly get where you are coming from, and I agree that it is awesome that Flying Monkey's is trying all this new stuff, and it would be nice for people to support it. That said, what your saying right now is basically this:

- The director of a well regarded brewing institute and a well known high profile American brewer (who has made no secret of the fact that he has little interest in "extreme" beer many many times in the past.) were asked there opinion of a limited release beer that neither had tasted, and had probably not heard of prior to being called by the reporter (from a paper that they may or may not be familiar with.

- They were presented with a statement about the IBUs of the beer that they considered so outrageous, that they reacted the way they did. (similar to the reaction that others have posted on Bartowel). The idea that there is a maximum to both a) the level of bitterness that can be absorbed by a beer and b) the bitterness that can be tasted by humans are both fairly well known.

- Their dismissiveness upsets you.


I highly doubt that Flying Monkey's is upset about making the papers with the beer. They may not love the specific quotes (I'll let them speak on their own behalf since they frequent the board) but I would speculate that the publiciity they have received was well worth the effort put into making the beer.

I was going to refer you to Mr. Beaumont's posts on the various BrewDog beers but he has already posted in this thread. In fact, I suggest that if the reactions of Stewart and Oliver might even be partly influenced by the promotion of beers like Brew Dog. E.g. This is likely not the first time those men have been contacted about the latest shiniest hoppiest strongest darkest coldest new brew.



You're bang on in your assessment, Jer. And using Brew Dog as an example makes sense.

Look at all the guff they took over the strongest beer in the world thing. But they are a great brewery that makes many high quality beers. They are very successful. They are opening brewpubs in Scotland and are brewing at capacity. They are doing all the right things. So the guys get together and decide to have fun, mostly at their own expense, and they get some exposure about it, and the "beer media experts" mostly write it off as a publicity stunt. They say what a waste it is, they slag the brewery and offer their "expert opinions", which at the time, tended to be a detriment to the brewery likely harmful to the brewers.

The same thing is happening here. Peter and the guys want to have a little fun, at their own expense. They have a solid core line up, and have the one of the top rated beers made in the country being Smash Bomb. But as soon as they decide to have a bit of fun, all the critics and homebrewers come out waving their swards and axes, wanting to draw blood. Again, raining on their parade before the parade starts.

If Black Oak announced here that they were going to brew the hoppiest beer in the world, you'd have hundreds of ISO posts from our forum members, but the Monkeys have a little fun, and everyone chimes in with mostly negative comments. It bothered me.
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Postby mistermurphy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:18 pm

Brewdog is a little bit different because they brewed a high alcohol beer in a country with a drinking and driving, pub fighting and excessive drinking issues (whether or not it's an actual issue I can't say, that's just what the media was saying). Since they were making the high alcohol beer they were mostly being called irresponsible.

A 2,500 ibu beer is scientifically impossible, so anyone that is asked to comment on it in the media can do nothing but laugh. If FM had of called it the most fragrent IPA in the world, I wouldn't have had a problem with that!
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:22 pm

mistermurphy wrote:Brewdog is a little bit different because they brewed a high alcohol beer in a country with a drinking and driving, pub fighting and excessive drinking issues (whether or not it's an actual issue I can't say, that's just what the media was saying). Since they were making the high alcohol beer they were mostly being called irresponsible.

A 2,500 ibu beer is scientifically impossible, so anyone that is asked to comment on it in the media can do nothing but laugh. If FM had of called it the most fragrent IPA in the world, I wouldn't have had a problem with that!


They've always maintained that it was a beer with 2,500 "theoretical" IBU. An experiment.
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