Flying Monkeys Alpha Fornication

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ritzkiss
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Postby ritzkiss » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:20 pm

SteelbackGuy wrote:
If Black Oak announced here that they were going to brew the hoppiest beer in the world, you'd have hundreds of ISO posts from our forum members, but the Monkeys have a little fun, and everyone chimes in with mostly negative comments. It bothered me.


Not sure if I follow this line of the argument, especially in regards to your ire towards Garrett Oliver and this Scottish bloke. They certainly don't know the difference between Black Oak or Flying Monkeys, yet they still react in the vein of "publicity over substance". I don't think those on the forums would be doing the about face you claim - no one has a specific gripe or hate on for Flying Monkeys, at least not that I know of.

I think the ire that you've over reacted to is borne of frustration with a focus on glamor over substance. While Smash Bomb is undoubtedly a well recognized beer in this province (though hardly one of the best in the country as you claim), the other beers in the Monkeys' stable are known to be plagued with inconsistencies. Why not focus of putting out a consistently quality product before playing for media exposure over 'the world's hoppiest beer'? Before you argue it wasn't for exposure, I would say the write up of an official press release begs different.

I understand the 'we're just having fun' line; I and others appreciate brewers who are willing to take risks and put out unique, one of a kind beers. I would venture a guess that, IF members were to give more leniency to Black Oak, it would be be because they have a more consistent product to back them up; they've put in the time and effort to make sure their stalwarts are just that, stalwart. We all want boundary pushing beer but what we want even more is good beer and good beer which is consistently good.

I know you're a big fan of the crew at Flying Monkeys and I can understand why all this raised your hackles. Just understand the other side of this because, much like your position, it's not just some hotheads with a hate on for Flying Monkeys. Flying Monkeys is doing some good things but they're not immune to criticism and, I think they would agree, there's lots of room for improvement. I know I wish them continued success and desire to see more top quality beer from them.
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JerCraigs
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Postby JerCraigs » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:35 pm

SteelbackGuy wrote:the "beer media experts" mostly write it off as a publicity stunt


Brew Dog put out beers called Tactical Nuclear Penguin, Sink The Bismarck, and Royal Virility Performance. All three made major media splashes internationally. All three have an average score of 3.39 on Ratebeer. They make several lesser known beers that score north of 3.75.

Based on that semi-objective measure - to what extent do you think those beers were brewed for the quality of the beer, vs. the value of the publicity? I don't think its insulting to Brew Dog or FM to acknowledge that fact.

Personally I am waiting for them to perfect that additve that makes beer super, super malty.
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SteelbackGuy
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:46 pm

ritzkiss wrote:
SteelbackGuy wrote:
If Black Oak announced here that they were going to brew the hoppiest beer in the world, you'd have hundreds of ISO posts from our forum members, but the Monkeys have a little fun, and everyone chimes in with mostly negative comments. It bothered me.


Not sure if I follow this line of the argument, especially in regards to your ire towards Garrett Oliver and this Scottish bloke. They certainly don't know the difference between Black Oak or Flying Monkeys, yet they still react in the vein of "publicity over substance". I don't think those on the forums would be doing the about face you claim - no one has a specific gripe or hate on for Flying Monkeys, at least not that I know of.

I think the ire that you've over reacted to is borne of frustration with a focus on glamor over substance. While Smash Bomb is undoubtedly a well recognized beer in this province (though hardly one of the best in the country as you claim), the other beers in the Monkeys' stable are known to be plagued with inconsistencies. Why not focus of putting out a consistently quality product before playing for media exposure over 'the world's hoppiest beer'? Before you argue it wasn't for exposure, I would say the write up of an official press release begs different.

I understand the 'we're just having fun' line; I and others appreciate brewers who are willing to take risks and put out unique, one of a kind beers. I would venture a guess that, IF members were to give more leniency to Black Oak, it would be be because they have a more consistent product to back them up; they've put in the time and effort to make sure their stalwarts are just that, stalwart. We all want boundary pushing beer but what we want even more is good beer and good beer which is consistently good.

I know you're a big fan of the crew at Flying Monkeys and I can understand why all this raised your hackles. Just understand the other side of this because, much like your position, it's not just some hotheads with a hate on for Flying Monkeys. Flying Monkeys is doing some good things but they're not immune to criticism and, I think they would agree, there's lots of room for improvement. I know I wish them continued success and desire to see more top quality beer from them.



Well written and compelling. I genuinely appreciate the thought you put into that.

My opinion, however, remains unchanged.

No matter what you think about smash bomb, it is currently rated as the 17th best beer brewed in Canada, on the ratebeer.com 2011 list.

Here is your quote.....

"While Smash Bomb is undoubtedly a well recognized beer in this province (though hardly one of the best in the country as you claim)"

It certainly isn't my "claim" rather matter of fact according to the ratings.
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ritzkiss
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Postby ritzkiss » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:54 pm

SteelbackGuy wrote:
No matter what you think about smash bomb, it is currently rated as the 17th best beer brewed in Canada, on the ratebeer.com 2011 list.

Here is your quote.....

"While Smash Bomb is undoubtedly a well recognized beer in this province (though hardly one of the best in the country as you claim)"

It certainly isn't my "claim" rather matter of fact according to the ratings.


I can accept it as the 17th best (though I still imagine it a little lower on my own scale), our definitions of the best are just a little different. :)
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Bobsy
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Postby Bobsy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:59 pm

SteelbackGuy wrote:No matter what you think about smash bomb, it is currently rated as the 17th best beer brewed in Canada, on the ratebeer.com 2011 list.

Here is your quote.....

"While Smash Bomb is undoubtedly a well recognized beer in this province (though hardly one of the best in the country as you claim)"

It certainly isn't my "claim" rather matter of fact according to the ratings.


It's a decent beer for sure, though I did do a side by side with the Muskoka and preferred that one. However, I'd be a little cautious before using rating sites as an appeal to authority on what is and isn't amongst the best beers in Canada. I think we all recognise that rating sites are plagued with their own biases both towards beers at the extreme end of the spectrum (both in terms of hops and ABV), as well as a lack of perspective and homerism from some raters. I think Ontario in particular is guilty of this, because we do lack hop-forward beers and the distribution that helps set these examples within a wider context.

I wish Flying Monkeys well, but that said I'm a marketer and I recognise an exercise done for publicity when I see one. Kudos to them for getting more exposure. The beer could be shit for all I care, the main thing is that it helps to raise awareness of craft beer outside of the big guys, and that's not a bad thing.
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SteelbackGuy
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:32 pm

Bobsy wrote:
SteelbackGuy wrote:No matter what you think about smash bomb, it is currently rated as the 17th best beer brewed in Canada, on the ratebeer.com 2011 list.

Here is your quote.....

"While Smash Bomb is undoubtedly a well recognized beer in this province (though hardly one of the best in the country as you claim)"

It certainly isn't my "claim" rather matter of fact according to the ratings.


It's a decent beer for sure, though I did do a side by side with the Muskoka and preferred that one. However, I'd be a little cautious before using rating sites as an appeal to authority on what is and isn't amongst the best beers in Canada. I think we all recognise that rating sites are plagued with their own biases both towards beers at the extreme end of the spectrum (both in terms of hops and ABV), as well as a lack of perspective and homerism from some raters. I think Ontario in particular is guilty of this, because we do lack hop-forward beers and the distribution that helps set these examples within a wider context.

I wish Flying Monkeys well, but that said I'm a marketer and I recognise an exercise done for publicity when I see one. Kudos to them for getting more exposure. The beer could be shit for all I care, the main thing is that it helps to raise awareness of craft beer outside of the big guys, and that's not a bad thing.



You can be as cautious as you want when using ratings sites, and I guess I'll be less cautious and use them how I please. I use them as an overall indicator. You can use them as a barometer, a thermometer, or whatever other meter you choose. Use them as a basting tool for BBQ meats as well.

You're 100% right, Rob, when you say.......


"the main thing is that it helps to raise awareness of craft beer outside of the big guys, and that's not a bad thing."

This almost proves my point for me. We should be encouraging our brewers, not slagging them for having a bit of fun.

Anyway, I've said all I gave to say on the matter. I hope that when next time, an Ontario brewer decides to do something fun, we support the effort, instead of being fully weak.
If you`re reading this, there`s a 15% chance you`ve got a significant drinking problem. Get it fixed, get recovered!
mistermurphy
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Postby mistermurphy » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:40 am

When someone launches a theoretical 114% abv beer I will be supportive and keep my laughs to myself.
fishnerd
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Postby fishnerd » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:39 pm

SteelbackGuy wrote:"the main thing is that it helps to raise awareness of craft beer outside of the big guys, and that's not a bad thing."

This almost proves my point for me. We should be encouraging our brewers, not slagging them for having a bit of fun.

Anyway, I've said all I gave to say on the matter. I hope that when next time, an Ontario brewer decides to do something fun, we support the effort, instead of being fully weak.

I'm going to sneak in here and say ...

Raising awareness of craft beer is good.

But I think that bitterness- and ABV-fatigue are setting in with many people. And I think that more than a few people are wishing that local brewers would show their fun sides by doing something a little bit different than simply loading up on hops and booze.

FWIW, there are lots of BJCP-recognized styles that aren't commercially produced in Ontario, at least regularly. The current focus on one broad style (American IPA) is, IME, wearing thin on some people.
mintjellie
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Postby mintjellie » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:31 pm

This is the first year Ontario brewers have even had AIPA's on the Elsies general list. You must fatigue very easily. It's been pretty hard for me to get to the point of hop fatigue when these sorts of beers haven't been broadly available in Ontario.
fishnerd
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Postby fishnerd » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:08 pm

mintjellie wrote:This is the first year Ontario brewers have even had AIPA's on the Elsies general list. You must fatigue very easily. It's been pretty hard for me to get to the point of hop fatigue when these sorts of beers haven't been broadly available in Ontario.

Well ...

Durham Hop Addict (RateBeer scores going back nearly 5 years).

Homebrewer.

Bottles through the LCBO / Volo / Beer Bistro.

Even more bottles brought up from the States going back 12 or 13 years (Alimony Ale was, IIRC, my first going back to '99 or 2000).

It's not like the style hasn't been available in Ontario for years -- it's just that our local brewers have latched on it in a surprising way.
mintjellie
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Postby mintjellie » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:25 pm

fishnerd wrote:
mintjellie wrote:This is the first year Ontario brewers have even had AIPA's on the Elsies general list. You must fatigue very easily. It's been pretty hard for me to get to the point of hop fatigue when these sorts of beers haven't been broadly available in Ontario.

Well ...

Durham Hop Addict (RateBeer scores going back nearly 5 years).

Homebrewer.

Bottles through the LCBO / Volo / Beer Bistro.

Even more bottles brought up from the States going back 12 or 13 years (Alimony Ale was, IIRC, my first going back to '99 or 2000).

It's not like the style hasn't been available in Ontario for years -- it's just that our local brewers have latched on it in a surprising way.


You do realize that not everyone drives, that even though Durham make some delicious beers they aren't broadly available, that the LCBO has very few AIPA's on the shelves - hell, after DFH pulled out they only had one! There are a plethora of beer styles brewed in Ontario. Brown ales, cream ales, stouts, pilsners, witbier, weizen. All of a sudden, we have four AIPA's at the Elsie, and its some kind of tiresome trend to bemoan.

If four Ontario brewers put an Impy stout in the Elsie, would you bitch about that tiresome trend and cite roasted malt fatigue?

If four Ontario brewers put berliner weisse on the shelves, would you complain about sour fatigue?

Me, I'm happy to have my hop fix brewed a ten minute bus ride and ten minute walk away from me. I've been pumped for Smashbomb since I sampled the first batch.

Next up Ontario brewers - a general list DIPA! Someone do it, please!
peterchiodo
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Postby peterchiodo » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:18 am

mintjellie wrote:Me, I'm happy to have my hop fix brewed a ten minute bus ride and ten minute walk away from me. I've been pumped for Smashbomb since I sampled the first batch.

Next up Ontario brewers - a general list DIPA! Someone do it, please!


Flying Monkeys Super-Collider DIPA - 12%abv 160IBUs....coming to your local brewery (in 650mL bottles) very soon!
Lamber
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Postby Lamber » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:25 am

peterchiodo wrote:
Flying Monkeys Super-Collider DIPA - 12%abv 160IBUs....coming to your local brewery (in 650mL bottles) very soon!


Super-Collider sounds far too violent, I'm worried for the children. :wink:
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ErkLR
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Postby ErkLR » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:18 pm

peterchiodo wrote:Flying Monkeys Super-Collider DIPA - 12%abv 160IBUs....coming to your local brewery (in 650mL bottles) very soon!


Gah, sadly that is not local to London.
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SteelbackGuy
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:37 pm

ErkLR wrote:
peterchiodo wrote:Flying Monkeys Super-Collider DIPA - 12%abv 160IBUs....coming to your local brewery (in 650mL bottles) very soon!


Gah, sadly that is not local to London.


But you tried it at the Meet and Greet, right?
If you`re reading this, there`s a 15% chance you`ve got a significant drinking problem. Get it fixed, get recovered!

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