Flying Monkeys Super Collider DIPA

[JeffPorter]

Yes, thanks again for the offer...

It's a really good beer, but not quite what I expected. In this bottle, I'm getting a more bittering hops than aromatic, but it may be just because it's too cold right now. A lot of piney notes in the back.

Not much of a head, but then again it is 12+% I guess I kind of agree that it could be a little less "hot" but I'm kind of liking this right now. Maybe the lower alc would make for a hoppier beer, but I don't know if I want it much more hoppy than this. My tongue is getting Maybe it does need a bit more of a malt backbone.

Also, I haven't gotten through my first glass as I'm typing. I may feel different in about 6 or 7 more ounces.

I like it, and I'll gladly try it again when it eventually gets to the store. Very bold and impressive beer for FM, and well done! However, American Barley Wine or double IPA doesn't really seem to "fit". I almost want to call it an India Barley Wine.

Now: I could cap the rest of this bottle for later, or...

[Streets]

I caught a few minutes of CityLine while I was waiting for my lunch order today, and noticed they were cooking with a bottle of Super Collider!

http://video.citytv.com/video/detail/11 ... nksgiving/

At about 25:30.

[Belgian]

I caught a few minutes of CityLine while I was waiting for my lunch order today, and noticed they were cooking with a bottle of Super Collider!

It could be really good for such beers to become trendy. Good for them.

Part of the rapid FM acceptance is branding. Starting with product appearance. I'm glad they stopped putting Dead White Guys on our beer labels. I want a craft beer - not a history lesson.

Wellington Brewery take note (if you're still there.) Even the great Scotch Irish Brewing is now just a historical footnote itself - much like John By and all the military guys on those labels.

[Wray77]

I caught a few minutes of CityLine while I was waiting for my lunch order today, and noticed they were cooking with a bottle of Super Collider!

It could be really good for such beers to become trendy. Good for them.

Part of the rapid FM acceptance is branding. Starting with product appearance. I'm glad they stopped putting Dead White Guys on our beer labels. I want a craft beer - not a history lesson.

Wellington Brewery take note (if you're still there.) Even the great Scotch Irish Brewing is now just a historical footnote itself - much like John By and all the military guys on those labels.

I remember a bunch of people saying they didn't care about branding as long as the beer tasted good.

Personally I would have preferred that they kept their original brand. Now they just seem like a gimmick brewery.

[The_Jester]

...Now they just seem like a gimmick brewery.

Kinda like Stone (Arrogant Bastard) and Flying Dog (Raging Bitch) with the names? Or more like Brew Dog and Dogfish Head with the big beers? Or is it that the beer tastes gimmicky?

[Belgian]

...Now they just seem like a gimmick brewery.

Kinda like Stone (Arrogant Bastard) and Flying Dog (Raging Bitch) with the names? Or more like Brew Dog and Dogfish Head with the big beers? Or is it that the beer tastes gimmicky?

I think they upped their brewing game a LOT with Netherworld amd Smashbomb. It jist goes with the more edgy 'USA style' packaging. WTF is a gimmick brewery, if the beer's pretty good they are not just a gimmick.

FM are helping Ontario loosen up, is my point. And this makes people more adventuresome with beers they are willing to try. That's good for us in general.

Proof? Right now Smashbomb is the #9 top FAQ on the LCBO website.

[Wray77]

Perhaps it's just a matter of them changing their brand to be in line with the American style of brewing. It strikes me as disingenuous. Are they trying to craft good beer? It just appears to be a company recognizing an under served market and trying to cater to it. And because of the lack of competition in Ontario, they can get to #9 or higher. I'm probably wrong, maybe they had to go the Simpson route to get started, and when they made enough they switched to their true passion. Maybe they were "Flying Monkeys" all the time. Now you may wonder what sincerity has to do with all this, and I think it has to do with passion. I don't question Stone or Rogue, or Dogfish, because their beer speaks for itself. FM I believe is mediocre craft beer with a "what can we do to stand out" name.

I hope I'm wrong and they're just going through growing pains before they brew that one beer of unquestioning quality, that we can all pickup without having to look at the date on the bottle.

[cmadd]

Perhaps it's just a matter of them changing their brand to be in line with the American style of brewing. It strikes me as disingenuous. Are they trying to craft good beer? It just appears to be a company recognizing an under served market and trying to cater to it. And because of the lack of competition in Ontario, they can get to #9 or higher. I'm probably wrong, maybe they had to go the Simpson route to get started, and when they made enough they switched to their true passion. Maybe they were "Flying Monkeys" all the time. Now you may wonder what sincerity has to do with all this, and I think it has to do with passion. I don't question Stone or Rogue, or Dogfish, because their beer speaks for itself. FM I believe is mediocre craft beer with a "what can we do to stand out" name.

I hope I'm wrong and they're just going through growing pains before they brew that one beer of unquestioning quality, that we can all pickup without having to look at the date on the bottle.

Whether you like their beer or not, you can't say they aren't sincerely trying to push the boundaries of brewing in Ontario. Smashbomb, Alpha Fornication, and Divinity are all examples of this. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea of them as cynically manufacturing an image without the product line to back it up.

[SteelbackGuy]

Perhaps it's just a matter of them changing their brand to be in line with the American style of brewing. It strikes me as disingenuous. Are they trying to craft good beer? It just appears to be a company recognizing an under served market and trying to cater to it. And because of the lack of competition in Ontario, they can get to #9 or higher. I'm probably wrong, maybe they had to go the Simpson route to get started, and when they made enough they switched to their true passion. Maybe they were "Flying Monkeys" all the time. Now you may wonder what sincerity has to do with all this, and I think it has to do with passion. I don't question Stone or Rogue, or Dogfish, because their beer speaks for itself. FM I believe is mediocre craft beer with a "what can we do to stand out" name.

I hope I'm wrong and they're just going through growing pains before they brew that one beer of unquestioning quality, that we can all pickup without having to look at the date on the bottle.

Whether you like their beer or not, you can't say they aren't sincerely trying to push the boundaries of brewing in Ontario. Smashbomb, Alpha Fornication, and Divinity are all examples of this. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea of them as cynically manufacturing an image without the product line to back it up.

Yeah it's not as if they are Muskoka.

[Wray77]

Yeah it's not as if they are Muskoka.

Maybe Muskoka should have changed their name to Brewers of Oz.

[ritzkiss]

All of the Flying Monkey fanboys in here are always, in defense, stating, "At least FM is pushing the boundaries of brewing in Ontario." Which gives me rise to say, so what?

Is there something inherently good in pushing the boundaries or does it matter HOW you push the boundaries and if the product is actually any GOOD?

Arguably, Trafalgar is a boundary pushing brewery. Their Critical Mass is marketed as one of the strongest beers in Canada and is 'boundary pushing'. It also tastes like burning electronics, stewed vegetables and ink. Should they be congratulated for this?

By this standard, breweries such as Church Key are also innovative and boundary pushing - their Lactese Falcon was one of the first wild ale attempts in the province. It also tasted like bad blue cheese and baby vomit (from what I hear). Did they win praise for this?

Both of these breweries (and others) have been 'boundary pushing' long before Flying Monkeys was in the game and have never won the sort of acclaim and for good reason - their boundary pushing beer wasn't very good. Even now, there are more innovative, boundary pushing breweries in Ontario experimenting with new techniques such as Brett and barrel-aging, new ingredients, etc...

Discerning consumers care more about quality and consistency over hype, gimmicks and 'boundary pushing'. Discerning consumers want good beer in whatever shape, form or style it comes in; THIS is what pushes the craft beer industry forward, not 'hoppiest beer in the world' or 'strongest beer brewed in Canada'. Boundary pushing is good but HOW you push those boundaries matters (with consistently good beer). Those gimmicks might work as advertising and promote the particular brewery in mainstream venues but, arguably, it does not aid the movement of good beer if, when those interested mainstream consumers sample their beer, the beer is not good.

This is not to say that Flying Monkeys doesn't produce good beer - they do. Just not all of their beer and just not consistently. Why not focus on this rather than marketing? Why not put the horse before the cart?

Just my two cents that I know will get flamed by all the lovers of Flying Monkeys out there; just bringing some rational discussion to this whole 'at least they push the boundaries' discussion.

[Belgian]

This is not to say that Flying Monkeys doesn't produce good beer - they do. Just not all of their beer and just not consistently. Why not...

You're right, but it's still pushing the market wide open for any OTHER good USA-style products to be brewed OR be imported here. If there were no developing market for good IPAs or extreme porters why would a company on the level of Stone even try to sell its IPA to the LCBO?

(Stone is a bad example distribution-wise, as I dream of having Stone IPA here. So insert "your favorite prospective beer maker" in that sentence instead.)

Progress is a curve, not an overnight change. We're moving ahead of where we once were. Try buying decent IPA ten years ago!

[viggo]

All of the Flying Monkey fanboys in here are always, in defense, stating, "At least FM is pushing the boundaries of brewing in Ontario." Which gives me rise to say, so what?

Is there something inherently good in pushing the boundaries or does it matter HOW you push the boundaries and if the product is actually any GOOD?

Arguably, Trafalgar is a boundary pushing brewery. Their Critical Mass is marketed as one of the strongest beers in Canada and is 'boundary pushing'. It also tastes like burning electronics, stewed vegetables and ink. Should they be congratulated for this?

By this standard, breweries such as Church Key are also innovative and boundary pushing - their Lactese Falcon was one of the first wild ale attempts in the province. It also tasted like bad blue cheese and baby vomit (from what I hear). Did they win praise for this?

Both of these breweries (and others) have been 'boundary pushing' long before Flying Monkeys was in the game and have never won the sort of acclaim and for good reason - their boundary pushing beer wasn't very good. Even now, there are more innovative, boundary pushing breweries in Ontario experimenting with new techniques such as Brett and barrel-aging, new ingredients, etc...

Discerning consumers care more about quality and consistency over hype, gimmicks and 'boundary pushing'. Discerning consumers want good beer in whatever shape, form or style it comes in; THIS is what pushes the craft beer industry forward, not 'hoppiest beer in the world' or 'strongest beer brewed in Canada'. Boundary pushing is good but HOW you push those boundaries matters (with consistently good beer). Those gimmicks might work as advertising and promote the particular brewery in mainstream venues but, arguably, it does not aid the movement of good beer if, when those interested mainstream consumers sample their beer, the beer is not good.

This is not to say that Flying Monkeys doesn't produce good beer - they do. Just not all of their beer and just not consistently. Why not focus on this rather than marketing? Why not put the horse before the cart?

Just my two cents that I know will get flamed by all the lovers of Flying Monkeys out there; just bringing some rational discussion to this whole 'at least they push the boundaries' discussion.

TRUTH

[cmadd]

You're right, 'boundary pushing' is not itself a sufficient measure of a 'good brewery'. But I do think a good measure is the drive to shift markets. The introduction of hoppy beers as standard offerings is an important shift. I'm not just talking about FM here; I'm including Muskoka among others. But we can't discount Smashbomb in that line-up.

I see no problem with FM rebranding in order to attract more customers. It makes good business sense. I hope you're not suggesting that in order to remain 'pure' a brewery should hold fast to unattractive or uninspired labelling. Wellington and Grand River have a lot to learn in that sense. The biggest problem I see is if that branding is deceiving or if the brewery is resting on its laurels. Deceiving, like Coors starting Blue Moon to look 'craft'. Resting on your laurels, like refusing to shift from a safe product line. Again, I don't think FM does either of those. You may not like their beers and they're certainly not unique in their attempt to up-the-ante of craft beer in Ontario. The fact that they're a little smarter with branding than other breweries is not a point against them. In fact, I'd say breweries like FM are in a much better place to shift consumer preference than Church Key or Trafalgar. They smartly put themselves in the position by marketing. Let's just be honest, image does matter. To think otherwise is naive. In an ideal world we'd have both quality and image (Three Floyds), but for now I'm not going to hold it against FM that they did a pretty good job with quality and a much better job with image.

And finally, I don't think arguing with ad-hominem attacks is a productive way to bring 'rational discussion'. I like FM, but they're certainly not my favourite Ontario brewery. Like you say they make good beer – sometimes.

[midlife crisis]

OMG! The whining on this forum for "west coast" IPAs and other boundary-pushing beers to actually be attempted in Ontario has been pretty consistent over the years, it's safe to say. And now Flying Monkeys and Muskoka (and what's with the Muskoka bashing??) actually do something about it, producing very creditable beers in Smashbomb and Mad Tom, and we get ... more whining?