St. Ambroise RIS 2011

[TheSevenDuffs]

I plan to age a bunch of these myself. 7-10 years requires a lot of patience.

You clearly aren't buying enough beer then.

Seriously, get a pipeline going and start a bit of a cellar. Everything I put in my cellar gets added to a spreadsheet that tracks some basic info, including the future month I plan to pull from the cellar. Each month I refer to the spreadsheet and pull the ones that are "ready to drink." Pretty easy to manage, and like I say, if you have enough other beer around, there is no temptation. I honestly have trouble drinking all the beer I have on hand, even though I do my best to share.

That being said, I personally wouldn't age this particular beer beyond 5 years, it probably peaks around 2-3 years, it just aint big enough. Not saying it wouldn't hold up 7-10 years, just can't see those additional years contributing much of anything positive.

I do have a cellar going. I am sitting on about 300 bottles right now and they are all entered in to a fairly detailed spreadsheet. I just don't have more then 5 or 6 of any vintage of a single beer (with a few exceptions) because I don't see most beers having aging potential beyond 3-5 years.

Then again, I am also fairly new to this and haven't aged anything beyond 2 years yet. So the next couple of years should be very interesting for me.

[Frere Ambroise]

Got the answer regarding the barrel or wood chips:
We age the beer with wood chips in a holding tank. We wanted to age them in the barrels, but the barrels kinda lost their integrity and weren't capable of holding liquid.

Regarding the aging - I do know Peter and Ellen introduced the RIS for the brewery's 20th anniversary and that they had been working on the brew and planning on it for years so there is some knowledge and history. Also, their experience with the Vintage Ale probably would come into play. Again, "7-10 years" came from Peter McAuslan and he does know his beer.

I am sticking to 5 years myself for the 2009 version as I only have two bottles left and my patience will be tested. Would be nice to try it alongside the 2014 version to celebrate the brewery's 25th anniversary. I have been told that the as the beer ages and becomes a different beer every year, the flavours blend that much more and that the carbonation goes down and it takes on more of a port consistency.

@ Jason - we should have some coming through the London w/h pretty soon so you should see them on the shelves.

Cheers!
Barry

[markaberrant]

I do have a cellar going. I am sitting on about 300 bottles right now and they are all entered in to a fairly detailed spreadsheet. I just don't have more then 5 or 6 of any vintage of a single beer (with a few exceptions) because I don't see most beers having aging potential beyond 3-5 years.

Then again, I am also fairly new to this and haven't aged anything beyond 2 years yet. So the next couple of years should be very interesting for me.

Wow, 300 bottles is a lot. Are you sure all of those beers are meant for aging? In my opinion, the only beers that benefit from long term aging are barleywines/old ales, imperial stouts, belgian dark strongs and sour ales. Some other high alcohol beers may benefit from a bit of aging, but that is usually because they are just too damn hot when fresh (ie; give a hot doppelbock a year to mellow out and it will taste much better, but it isn't like the flavours are going to evolve all that much). There are exceptions to every rule, and experimenting can certainly be fun, but this has been my experience.

[PeenSteen]

I do have a cellar going. I am sitting on about 300 bottles right now and they are all entered in to a fairly detailed spreadsheet. I just don't have more then 5 or 6 of any vintage of a single beer (with a few exceptions) because I don't see most beers having aging potential beyond 3-5 years.

Then again, I am also fairly new to this and haven't aged anything beyond 2 years yet. So the next couple of years should be very interesting for me.

Wow, 300 bottles is a lot. Are you sure all of those beers are meant for aging? In my opinion, the only beers that benefit from long term aging are barleywines/old ales, imperial stouts, belgian dark strongs and sour ales. Some other high alcohol beers may benefit from a bit of aging, but that is usually because they are just too damn hot when fresh (ie; give a hot doppelbock a year to mellow out and it will taste much better, but it isn't like the flavours are going to evolve all that much). There are exceptions to every rule, and experimenting can certainly be fun, but this has been my experience.

He posted pictures of his cellar on here a little while ago, he knows what hes doing

[TheSevenDuffs]

I do have a cellar going. I am sitting on about 300 bottles right now and they are all entered in to a fairly detailed spreadsheet. I just don't have more then 5 or 6 of any vintage of a single beer (with a few exceptions) because I don't see most beers having aging potential beyond 3-5 years.

Then again, I am also fairly new to this and haven't aged anything beyond 2 years yet. So the next couple of years should be very interesting for me.

Wow, 300 bottles is a lot. Are you sure all of those beers are meant for aging? In my opinion, the only beers that benefit from long term aging are barleywines/old ales, imperial stouts, belgian dark strongs and sour ales. Some other high alcohol beers may benefit from a bit of aging, but that is usually because they are just too damn hot when fresh (ie; give a hot doppelbock a year to mellow out and it will taste much better, but it isn't like the flavours are going to evolve all that much). There are exceptions to every rule, and experimenting can certainly be fun, but this has been my experience.

If I had to guess at my breakdown it would be as follows:

200 - Imperial Stouts
40 - Belgian Strong Ales (of various styles)
30 - Barley wines
30 - Other (Doppel Bocks, Sours, American Stong Ales, some various DFH stuff, etc.)


I am still learning a bit as I go but I don't think I have anything in the cellar that shouldn't bt there...

He posted pictures of his cellar on here a little while ago, he knows what hes doing

I forgot that I posted pics here. It has filled up quite a bit since then. Too bad I live way out in the burbs or you could help me create some space on the shelves

[markaberrant]

He posted pictures of his cellar on here a little while ago, he knows what hes doing

Oh yeah, I forgot, that is a decent cellar collection.

Still need other "ready to drink" beers in the fridge too! Like I said, it is all about the pipeline; I keep a mix of various beers in my fridge, session beers, new to me beers, aged beers, whatever else. Keep the fridge well stocked, and you won't be tempted to raid your cellar.

300 bottles does seem like a lot of beer to keep in a cellar though, especially when it is mostly 1-2 years old, keeping up that pace doesn't seem sustainable; either too much beer on hand, or too much drinking trying to keep up!

[jayB]

with a beer like this that is only in its 3rd vintage no one can say that it will improve for 7 - 10 years because it hasnt even been around for that long

has anyone even done the mini 3 year vertical to find out if this beer is even improving?

I have, and while I'm not sure I have the ability to say it's objectively better (I only got into beer in the last couple of years), I can definitely say I liked it more. It was definitely smoother, and seemed more viscous as well. Though I wonder of course how much of the difference comes down to differences in the original fresh beer.

For the three of us who did it, I think the consensus was 2009>2011>2010. I think I still have 2-3 of the 2009 left, so if I keep doing this every year, I'll at least be able to test 4-5 year mark.

[TheSevenDuffs]

He posted pictures of his cellar on here a little while ago, he knows what hes doing

Oh yeah, I forgot, that is a decent cellar collection.

Still need other "ready to drink" beers in the fridge too! Like I said, it is all about the pipeline; I keep a mix of various beers in my fridge, session beers, new to me beers, aged beers, whatever else. Keep the fridge well stocked, and you won't be tempted to raid your cellar.

300 bottles does seem like a lot of beer to keep in a cellar though, especially when it is mostly 1-2 years old, keeping up that pace doesn't seem sustainable; either too much beer on hand, or too much drinking trying to keep up!

It is a lot in 2 years. I have managed to get way more cellarable beers stateside then I expected to and the problem I have is that I have also been buying numerous bottles of LCBO releases over the past two years because that's what was readily available to me. So I have started to be way more selective with the LCBO stuff. If it isn't a beer that I truly love, I am not going to buy it. At the moment, aside from the St. Ambroise RIS, there isn't much I can get locally that is worth cellaring. I hope that changes, but in the meantime I will just be selective with what I add to my cellar from the US.

I love IPA/DIPA too, as well as some sessionable beers and that is what I regularly keep on hand in the fridge.

[Belgian]

with a beer like this that is only in its 3rd vintage no one can say that it will improve for 7 - 10 years because it hasnt even been around for that long

I tend to agree, it might hold up ten years but not in a good way for all we know. Still, barring unforseen causes it might not be an outrageous prediction - what if it really becomes a sought-after classic like the 1999 VA.

has anyone even done the mini 3 year vertical to find out if this beer is even improving?

Even, even? I've only got the 2009 which to me is steadily improving, and a small group tasting agreed. Don't know how the 2010 compares because I have so much 2009. I'd love to comapre brewings though, if anyone has comments.

Do you think a RIS made / oaked in this way can hit the ugly tree in less than seven years, and IYO what would cause this? There seem to be no infection issies like the 2005 Tsarina.

[markaberrant]

Do you think a RIS made / oaked in this way can hit the ugly tree in less than seven years, and IYO what would cause this? There seem to be no infection issies like the 2005 Tsarina.

poor cellaring conditions
poor bottling technique
poor brewing process
not enough alcohol
not enough hop bitterness
oxidization

As some beers age, they can get too sweet, too flabby, too thin, too oxidized. Every beer has a "peak" and then will decline at an undertermined, non-linear rate; impossible to predict, and personal preference also dictates when it hits its peak.

If a brewery has outstanding brewing and bottling processes, and the beer is cellared properly, it has a good chance of lasting longer. St Ambroise has pretty good quality controls in my opinion, so this is definitely in their favour.

The beer itself is not super high in alcohol or bitterness, however the roasted malts and oak also act as a preservative.

Then there is the whole idea of whether a beer will benefit/improve with aging, and for how long. Again, this is personal preference, but it also has to do with the complexity and size of the beer. On average, a 12% will be a better candidate to improve with age than a 9% stout, or say a 12% pale doppelbock... there is just more "potential complexity" in the 12% stout that can develop over time, whether it will actual develop is anyone's guess.

So like I say, using my personal best guess, this beer will possibly holdup for 7 years, but my opinion is that it will peak around 3 years. The only way to know is to stock up, taste occassionally (say every 12 months) and take notes.

[Frere Ambroise]

Get ready for this -- so I saw Peter McAuslan at our Christmas Party up in Montreal on Friday and I asked him 'how many years can you age the RIS' - he told me this: "10 - easily. Even up to 20. As long as you have these three conditions - stationary, dark, and cool - not cold." Then I then asked him: "we've only had the RIS for the last three years - how do know it will last up to 20?" -- he looked me in the eyes and said "The antioxidating characteristics of the dark malts are so powerful, it will allow the beer to age that long. In fact, in 20 years when I turn 85, I will be opening up on of this year's RIS and I am looking forward to it."

There you go folks -- from Peter himself - the RIS can be aged 10 - even 20 years.

I might just have to get myself another case. And try to hide them in a wall while I am doing my basement renovations as I already question my own patience.

Cheers,
Barry

[iguenard]

I agree it may still be drinkeable at 10 years old. But the question we should asking, like mark said... is when will it peak?

I guess 2009 will peak this year, or next.

Thanks for the work Barry!