A Quartet of Stouts

G.M. Gillman · Post by **G.M. Gillman** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:05 pm

Started with a half pint of Guinness draft at a standard downtown pub. Got down just half of it, couldn't finish it. To me it was sort of like Ovaltine with a dash of instant coffee in it, hardly beer-like.

Next, three 5 ounce samples at Bar Hop of different stouts. First off, Pilgrim Porter on handpump from Grand River, natural-tasting, no coffee or other distracting additions, slightly astringent as some porter was, the real deal.

Spearhead's stout followed and this time I got the orange addition. Excellent stout, now I see its distinctiveness. On the dry side but very well-balanced.

Finally, Flying Monkeys's Roast to Roast, an 8.? % Imperial Stout, tasting like cask beer although dispensed under pressure, possibly oak-aged, just delicious/winy and again the real thing. There were actually two Imperial Stouts from FM, the other one was even stronger and it had a similar name but I didn't try it. (The Roast to Roast perhaps had a coffee addition - the name suggests it - but I couldn't tell from the palate, which was just as well for me). I assume these were stock remaining from the recent dark beer festival at Bar Hop.

Three successes and one, well, the least said the better. Guinness can still make good stout, its Foreign Extra Stout proves that, but until it is offered on draft I'm done with Guinness.

Gary

El Pinguino · Post by **El Pinguino** » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:17 pm

A fitting selection for this snowy end to winter. I'll have to check out these Flying Monkey stouts...haven't had either of them....

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:01 am

Every few years I'll be faced with a dire selection, and I'll order a Guinness... just to remind myself how much I dislike it.

IMHO, that 3% sour factor/essence just doesn't play nicely with the roast. I really hate it.

Now that I think of it, I don't think I've ever had one in BC. There's always SOMETHING else... whether it's just OK 1516 or Granville's Pale...

G.M. Gillman · Post by **G.M. Gillman** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:45 am

Derek I've read that today it's not even a soured component but a food-grade acid of some kind. I think a significant component to explain the flavour is the raw grains, which I understand comprise 40% of the grist today. Part is flaked, and the other part roasted, barley. So the barley malt is only 60% now. Guinness in the 1800's used only malts (pale, amber and roasted).

However, they still get a very good flavour with the FES version. Not sure if the grist is adjusted for that, I'd think it must be, or perhaps the higher ABV (7.5%) makes the difference, or both. It is fairly widely available in the States now but I have never seen it in Canada. It is surprising to me we don't see it in Ontario in particular, it would be a nice gesture to those who know about Guinness's great history.

Gary

markaberrant · Post by **markaberrant** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:36 pm

The Foreign Extra (US market, 7.5% abv) and Special Export (Belgian market 8%) produced at St James Gate in Dublin are both excellent.

I hate regular Guinness. It's already thin, and the nitro-gimmick makes the body even more water-like. The tang is just sort of annoying and mild - it doesn't really enhance the beer at all, and you really have to point it out to others, or they don't know it is there. I also find the flavour intensity to be very low, even for a 4.2% beer - my guess is that they are using sinamar or worse to darken the colour... there is no way that a beer that dark should have such a low roasted flavour.

As a comparison, recently had the 4.2% Gordon Biersch Schwarzbier. It was light and refreshing, incredibly easy to drink, but still had a creamy mouthfeel, and smooth well rounded roast character. It was incredible... basically everything Guinness is not.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:32 pm

I've barely touched the stuff since the last time I was in Ireland and did the tour at St. James Gate. When my buddy and I finished we went to the sample area and the nice woman who was pouring gave us the freshest pint I've ever had, naturally. Once she found out we're Canadians she gave us four more each, all before noon.

Rob Creighton · Post by **Rob Creighton** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:01 pm

Guinness - the Coors Light of black beers

Our IRA (Irish Red Ale for those who are sensitive & Irish Rebellion Ale for those who aren't) is an inspiration from Bob who hates how Guinness seems to own March for no good reason. The "rebellion" aspect is the fact that it has body, flavour and a 6.5% abv as opposed to the St. James Gate version that I personally find insipid.

Wheatsheaf · Post by **Wheatsheaf** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:19 pm

The worst thing about Guinness is not the beer itself, but the way it continues to fool otherwise sane people into thinking it's wonderful. I mean, did anyone catch the Dublin episode of The Layover last week? I'm a fan of Tony Bourdain, but jeez, you'd think he was drinking God's homebrew.

mintjellie · Post by **mintjellie** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:52 pm

I prefer Labatts-brewed Extra Stout over Draught, personally. Never had the St. James Gate Extra Stout for comparison, though I'd be willing to bet it's better than either of the versions we get here.

JeffPorter · Post by **JeffPorter** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:00 pm

Wheatsheaf wrote:The worst thing about Guinness is not the beer itself, but the way it continues to fool otherwise sane people into thinking it's wonderful.

This.

It really seems to be an experiential thing for most people. I'm always a little surprised to see so many people I see drinking Guinness at the Ceili Cottage when there's usually a lot nicer options...Including their oyster stout...

midlife crisis · Post by **midlife crisis** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:48 pm

I have a friend like this. Irish descent. Loves the Guinness. I keep giving him St Ambroise Oatmeal, Black Katt, hell even Mill St Cobblestone every chance I get, but he invariably returns to Guinness. One problem is, once you realize that (draught) Guinness is crap, it severely limits the number of bars you can happily drink in. This guy lives in the burbs, so it's not like he has Ceili Cottage, Volo and Bar Hop close at hand. Oh well.

El Pinguino · Post by **El Pinguino** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:52 pm

I never actually drank Guinness until about 2 years ago. When faced wit ha crappy beer selection, I'd choose some simple lager...then I finally decided to turn to Guinness as an option.

I find the only time I drink it now, is if I'm out somewhere and don't really feel like drinking...but feel obligated to (thankfully not too often!)

G.M. Gillman · Post by **G.M. Gillman** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:53 pm

I feel very much in tune with all these comments. But gee isn't there always an alternative even in the standard bars? Heineken, say, bottle or draft? At least it's all-malt and it does offer a version of classic helles lager.

Gary

Rob Creighton · Post by **Rob Creighton** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:17 pm

El Pinguino wrote:I never actually drank Guinness until about 2 years ago. When faced wit ha crappy beer selection, I'd choose some simple lager...so I chose Guinness (thankfully not too often!)

Rob Creighton · Post by **Rob Creighton** » Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:18 pm

od...I love the internet