Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

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Belgian
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Re: Sexism ideology

Postby Belgian » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:29 pm

Tapsucker wrote:Wow. We used to just get tribal and riled up about beer. I miss those days. :wink:

Well yeah, man tribalism will always be there. These are strange times for sure.

I support anyone's right to get riled up about what they are passionate about, and anyone else's right to counter with their own view, and why not. The only thing that's gross is attempts at silencing views...
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby nickw » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:57 pm

Blasphomet wrote:Anyone who thought the Naughty Neighbour or Immodest labels were sexist is the softest millennial do-gooder there is. Nickel Brook wimped out big time on that one and the new cans are try-hard and look horrendous as fuck. I haven't seen or heard any women complain. Just dudes that are trying so hard on behalf of the women who didn't ask for their help or opinions of what is or isn't sexist. Typical 2019.

The whole thing actually turned my off of Nickel Brook quite a bit. Folding to pressure of the few in the name of political correctness, and I don't plan on buying any of their beer any time soon. A real shame.


Not too hard to find women who appreciated the label change. A couple of weeks ago, for example, Robin Leblanc (@thethirstywench) tweeted that she appreciated the can change. A bunch of the responses to that tweet were women who agreed with her and were happy to have seen the change.

Softies.
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby Blasphomet » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:31 pm

Who?
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby Blasphomet » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:34 pm

Just sawy some ultra fresh Nickel Brook at an LCBO in Brampton. Naughty Neighbour and Head Stock canned in June. To die for.
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby portwood » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:48 pm

Blasphomet wrote:Who?

ok boomer
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby Blasphomet » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:31 am

portwood wrote:
Blasphomet wrote:Who?

ok boomer


What?
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby S. St. Jeb » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:03 am

Different slant on the issue for Nine Locks Brewing in Nova Scotia. It's not the label that is the problem, but the beer name and marketing.

https://www.canadianbeernews.com/2019/1 ... londe-ale/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.5372238
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby Tapsucker » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:01 pm

S. St. Jeb wrote:Different slant on the issue for Nine Locks Brewing in Nova Scotia. It's not the label that is the problem, but the beer name and marketing.

https://www.canadianbeernews.com/2019/1 ... londe-ale/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.5372238


I'm going to plant my ass on the fence regarding this one. I'm not sure how hair colour (or malt colour) has to be viewed as sexist. But I'm guessing they were going for a wink and a nod they might want to rethink.

Perhaps it's the 'unfiltered' on the label that really offends?
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby Belgian » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:01 pm

Tapsucker wrote:
S. St. Jeb wrote:Different slant on the issue for Nine Locks Brewing in Nova Scotia. It's not the label that is the problem, but the beer name (Dirty Blonde) and marketing.


I'm going to plant my ass on the fence regarding this one. I'm not sure how hair colour (or malt colour) has to be viewed as sexist. But I'm guessing they were going for a wink and a nod they might want to rethink.

Pretty clear to me - the marketing is really off-color but the name Dirty Blond - a hair color - is itself gender-neutral. Therefore the name can't be called sexist. Even if some bar patrons took the opportunity to talk way out of line with one blonde waitress (she says many - and condolences to Ms. Murray) - did the name of beers like Naughty Neighbor or Aphrodite ever get the names banned?

Nine Locks shouldn't have marketed their shirts and slogans for Dirty Blond with ribald innuendos, fair enough - it's clearly poor taste at least, and at worst it puts (presumably attractive, female and blonde) staff in the way of harassment. But there must be clear anti-harassment policy at the bar, and Catherine Murray's employer has to stand behind her if she shuts people down for harassment.

There is a right way to restore equality and empathy without a whole new campaign on policing language & product naming. Just her media coverage and many other brewers are casting shame on Nine Locks which might be enough to help them smarten up - and THIS reaction / correction IS the process of Free Speech (VS censorship.)

Thanks for standing up, Catherine - and really none of us should take this shit when we see it happening, ever to anyone. 2 cents.
Last edited by Belgian on Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby Tapsucker » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:33 pm

Belgian wrote:
Tapsucker wrote:
S. St. Jeb wrote:Different slant on the issue for Nine Locks Brewing in Nova Scotia. It's not the label that is the problem, but the beer name (Dirty Blonde) and marketing.


I'm going to plant my ass on the fence regarding this one. I'm not sure how hair colour (or malt colour) has to be viewed as sexist. But I'm guessing they were going for a wink and a nod they might want to rethink.

Pretty clear to me - the marketing is really off-color but the name Dirty Blond - a hair color - is itself gender-neutral. Therefore the name can't be called sexist. Even if some bar patrons took the opportunity to talk way out of line with one blonde waitress (she says many - and condolences to Ms. Murray) - did the name of beers like Naughty Neighbor or Aphrodite ever get the names banned?

Nine Locks shouldn't have marketed their shirts and slogans for Dirty Blond with ribald innuendos, fair enough - it's clearly poor taste at least, and at worst it puts (presumably attractive, female and blonde) staff in the way of harassment. But there must be clear anti-harassment policy at the bar, and Catherine Murray's employer has to stand behind her if she shuts people down for harassment.

There is a right way to restore equality and empathy without a whole new campaign on policing language & product naming. Just her media coverage and many other brewers are shaming Nine Locks might be enough to help them smarten up - and this is the process of free speech VS censorship.

Thanks for standing up, Catherine - and we all should not take this shit when we see it happening. 2 cents.


I wasn't going to jump in on the treatment of Ms Murray, which is unacceptable, but I didn't have all the details and quite frankly, is it not self evident people should not act like that toward anyone? Anyway. I'm firmly on the same side of the fence with you and hopefully most of civilized society on this one. Still not sure the name of the beer is the problem here.

I wonder if the beer is any good. Maybe it's not worth discussing anyway. /s
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby S. St. Jeb » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:54 am

Tapsucker wrote: Still not sure the name of the beer is the problem here.

A few years ago, I remember reading about a high school that banned the playing of Billy Idol's Mony Mony at the school dances. It was clearly stressed that it wasn't the song itself that was the problem, but the response it elicited (if you aren't familiar with this, at a certain point in the song the crowd chants "get laid get fucked").

This is perhaps something similar. You and Belgian have both spoken to the issue well. No beer name should ever be taken as an invitation to poor treatment of bar staff.
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby Belgian » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:04 pm

S. St. Jeb wrote:
Tapsucker wrote: Still not sure the name of the beer is the problem here.

A few years ago, I remember reading about a high school that banned the playing of Billy Idol's Mony Mony at the school dances. It was clearly stressed that it wasn't the song itself that was the problem, but the response it elicited (if you aren't familiar with this, at a certain point in the song the crowd chants "get laid get fucked").

This is perhaps something similar. You and Belgian have both spoken to the issue well. No beer name should ever be taken as an invitation to poor treatment of bar staff.

Well, the desire to attempt control of every human behavior doesn't justify censorship.

We have gotten soft censorship when some metal bands like Priest are taken to court over what people DECIDE the song means, rather than what the artist even said. And eg. suicide is a persistent, highly optional behavior for which the choice is probably not down to whether someone reads about it in a fictional novel or listens to some Ozzy song. Censoring things THAT proactively is both officious and wrong - and also I think banning Mony Mony at a school dance is a jackass authoritarian move, I mean really?

Free speech is healthy, while censorship hobbles societal health. Look at the radicalized PC language of the left nowadays, they want us to pretend that patently suspect 'narratives' replace simple truths that yesterday we took as scientifically evident or common sense - that's not healthy. And instead of waiting this to all blow over, why don't we all speak up - drag the discussion out into the disinfecting sunlight of truth... and not be collectively silenced like we're living under the regime of Stalin or in Stasi East Germany.
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby BeerIsGood » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:01 pm

Perhaps my perspective is somewhat formed by places I have visited/lived in, but I find this issue tedious, relatively meaningless and a very slippery slope for any consumer of anything. It's the moral indignation factor and how selectively it is applied that bothers me about this and other related issues. For example, all opinions on this issue were expressed using computerized devices of some sort. Yet, have you delved deeply into the labor practices under which these devices were manufactured, or, perhaps more importantly, the societal impact of the mining practices which produce some of the minerals required for those devices. Do you drink tea? I've seen tea pickers working in Sri Lanka and know how much they earn. Yet, I'm sure few are morally concerned about their tea, but perhaps you should be. The beer label issue is superficial and in your face, thus easy to react to, one way or the other. Dig beyond this superficiality and you will probably find far more significant problems with some of the products you use without an afterthought. Potentially offensive beer labels are the very definition of a first world problem.
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby Tapsucker » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:48 pm

BeerIsGood wrote:Perhaps my perspective is somewhat formed by places I have visited/lived in, but I find this issue tedious, relatively meaningless and a very slippery slope for any consumer of anything. It's the moral indignation factor and how selectively it is applied that bothers me about this and other related issues. For example, all opinions on this issue were expressed using computerized devices of some sort. Yet, have you delved deeply into the labor practices under which these devices were manufactured, or, perhaps more importantly, the societal impact of the mining practices which produce some of the minerals required for those devices. Do you drink tea? I've seen tea pickers working in Sri Lanka and know how much they earn. Yet, I'm sure few are morally concerned about their tea, but perhaps you should be. The beer label issue is superficial and in your face, thus easy to react to, one way or the other. Dig beyond this superficiality and you will probably find far more significant problems with some of the products you use without an afterthought. Potentially offensive beer labels are the very definition of a first world problem.


Yes, but we are in the first world, so it is our problem.

I'm not dismissing the importance or truth of what you are saying. People have all sorts of variations of ability to change things through their decisions. Yes this discussion is about picking off the easy ones, like "hmmm, I have a choice of 20 IPAs in front of me at the LCB0 (definitely not a first world problem a few years ago :wink: ) Should I pick the one with the offensive label?"

I don't think the broken window theory is all that valid, but geez, if we can't get basic civility into a simple first world pleasure like craft beer, how are we going to move anybody into taking a moment to think about what you have accurately pointed out needs to be addressed?
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Re: Sexism in beer labels in Ontario

Postby Tapsucker » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:52 pm

I would also like to add. Many people in the brewing industry participate in this site. It might sound like privileged bitching (that would be a good beer name), but it's also feedback to these producers about what this community feels about respect and diversity. A little bit of free market research on the matter...
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