Bellwoods Brewery

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BakaGaijin
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby BakaGaijin » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:16 pm

atomeyes wrote:
BakaGaijin wrote:Maybe a google before you reply :)

You might want to research the beer distribution system in the U.S. before you compare prices in Buffalo. 50% of craft beer prices in Buffalo are due to distributor and retail mark-up's. Bellwoods has neither of those.

If you want to compare Bellwoods retail with Buffalo than those Bellwoods beers would be $22 each with distributor/retailer mark-up's + shipping cost's added on.


nice cherry pick, dude. i think 5 of us have said that you're out to lunch regarding your pricing statement, but please, educate us more on the New York beer distribution model. and don't talk about the price for Winey Bastard or XX Tempest or any other big Ontario beer that, frankly, falls a bit short taste-wise than past Bellwoods 3MTM releases.

or ignore my statement about buying beer in Wisconsin. New Glarus beer are ridiculously dirt cheap. so is their rent, labour and fruit costs. in Toronto, a city of 4 million, everything is exponentially more costly and you should expect to pay that with your local purchases. even the fuel costs to drive their fan to and from their (old) barrel room is higher than what a Wisconsin brewery is.

bottom line: look before you leap (off the Bellwoods bridge). if you aren't cool with spending almost $15/beer, then Ontairo barrel-age small(er) batch releases aren't your thing. don't blame the brewery. there are logistics and a process behind it. and shame on Bellwoods for trying to make a buck. shame!


Here go....education:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5670015

They can charge whatever they like and people can choose to pay it if they like. My original musing was that usually, when you start to increase production you don't increase prices. Economy of scale and all that. Granted, neither of these beers were brewed at the new facility, however, they are both more expensive than prior releases.

I also mentioned that they will probably need distro because, in my opinion, they won't be able to sell all this product from two breweries at these prices from two bottle shops.

If you don't agree....fair enough. Have a beer.
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby TheSevenDuffs » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:40 pm

portwood wrote:To all Bellwoods fans: fill your boots with $14 barrel aged stouts, its your money, do with it what you want. But please don't go screaming obscenities at anyone who disagrees with you.

I don't care about how much a brewery spends on rent or fruit ... I prefer my beer without high overhead or (sour) fruit.

All this talk of barrel aged stouts is making me thirsty, think I'll order a case of http://www.lcbo.com/lcbo/product/le-tro ... F17x_krLb1

LOL. That's BA for 6 months - less than half of the aging for Farmageddon (and Cherry Farm) for example. Secondly, LTD is probably Canada's most overrated brewery. Their beer is average at best. So that's not an apples to apples comparison in any way, really.
atomeyes
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby atomeyes » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:39 pm

BakaGaijin wrote:
atomeyes wrote:
BakaGaijin wrote:Maybe a google before you reply :)

You might want to research the beer distribution system in the U.S. before you compare prices in Buffalo. 50% of craft beer prices in Buffalo are due to distributor and retail mark-up's. Bellwoods has neither of those.

If you want to compare Bellwoods retail with Buffalo than those Bellwoods beers would be $22 each with distributor/retailer mark-up's + shipping cost's added on.


nice cherry pick, dude. i think 5 of us have said that you're out to lunch regarding your pricing statement, but please, educate us more on the New York beer distribution model. and don't talk about the price for Winey Bastard or XX Tempest or any other big Ontario beer that, frankly, falls a bit short taste-wise than past Bellwoods 3MTM releases.

or ignore my statement about buying beer in Wisconsin. New Glarus beer are ridiculously dirt cheap. so is their rent, labour and fruit costs. in Toronto, a city of 4 million, everything is exponentially more costly and you should expect to pay that with your local purchases. even the fuel costs to drive their fan to and from their (old) barrel room is higher than what a Wisconsin brewery is.

bottom line: look before you leap (off the Bellwoods bridge). if you aren't cool with spending almost $15/beer, then Ontairo barrel-age small(er) batch releases aren't your thing. don't blame the brewery. there are logistics and a process behind it. and shame on Bellwoods for trying to make a buck. shame!


Here go....education:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5670015

They can charge whatever they like and people can choose to pay it if they like. My original musing was that usually, when you start to increase production you don't increase prices. Economy of scale and all that. Granted, neither of these beers were brewed at the new facility, however, they are both more expensive than prior releases.

I also mentioned that they will probably need distro because, in my opinion, they won't be able to sell all this product from two breweries at these prices from two bottle shops.

If you don't agree....fair enough. Have a beer.


Still trying to figure out your point.
You are talking about them ramping up production but then admit that this beer was made at their old facility.
You talk about them needing distribution with their pending increase in volume but that is irrelevant to the very price increase that irks you. And then you make N assumption they invested millions into a new facility but haven't thought through where they will sell their beer.

So what exactly is your personal vendetta against Bellwoods? You seem to be rubbed the wrong way by what they do. And it is also entertaining to watch you double down and stick your ground on a price attack that, so far, only you and a biased poster are crying about.

You are welcome to your opinion. Just try not to continue to be misinformed to to spread false information.
BakaGaijin
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby BakaGaijin » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:52 pm

Maybe a google before you reply :)

You might want to research the beer distribution system in the U.S. before you compare prices in Buffalo. 50% of craft beer prices in Buffalo are due to distributor and retail mark-up's. Bellwoods has neither of those.

If you want to compare Bellwoods retail with Buffalo than those Bellwoods beers would be $22 each with distributor/retailer mark-up's + shipping cost's added on.

Here go....education:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5670015

They can charge whatever they like and people can choose to pay it if they like. My original musing was that usually, when you start to increase production you don't increase prices. Economy of scale and all that. Granted, neither of these beers were brewed at the new facility, however, they are both more expensive than prior releases.

I also mentioned that they will probably need distro because, in my opinion, they won't be able to sell all this product from two breweries at these prices from two bottle shops.

If you don't agree....fair enough. Have a beer.[/quote]

Still trying to figure out your point.
You are talking about them ramping up production but then admit that this beer was made at their old facility.
You talk about them needing distribution with their pending increase in volume but that is irrelevant to the very price increase that irks you. And then you make N assumption they invested millions into a new facility but haven't thought through where they will sell their beer.

So what exactly is your personal vendetta against Bellwoods? You seem to be rubbed the wrong way by what they do. And it is also entertaining to watch you double down and stick your ground on a price attack that, so far, only you and a biased poster are crying about.

You are welcome to your opinion. Just try not to continue to be misinformed to to spread false information.[/quote][/quote]

I have no personal vendetta against them. I'll post my opinion that their beer is overpriced IMO.

You can continue to suck them off as the dutiful fanboy you are. Swallow if you like.
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more info, broader context

Postby Belgian » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:41 pm

I'd like to know BW's reasons for raising prices not from any animus but out of curiosity about their business thinking and any new debts and costs etc. We may never know, we can surmise and conjecture all we want. Clearly it's gonna be the way it is, and if this brewery sticks around making great sh-t and it sells this all proves they were pretty much 100% right.

I'm also thinking the whole city is changing too. Extraordinarily. The price to buy a Toronto area house also went up something nutty like 20% - average! - year over year as reported in October, and rent prices aren't pretty either. Renovation and building costs are going up quickly with that, and so on all the way down. The dollar looks smaller, and businesses charging more substantial money for a well-made coffee or a sandwich just seems a trend increasingly taken for granted. It's getting to be an expensive town for anyone to just stand still with pricing, and this Bellwoods increase, while noticeable just doesn't seem weird to me for a growing Toronto. It's disturbingly normal for a business here that does something well and doesn't want to stagnate economically.
That's just my 4¢ worth of musings. These are fascinating times and they are taking us along with them, it would seem.
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atomeyes
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby atomeyes » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:34 am

BakaGaijin wrote:
You can continue to suck them off as the dutiful fanboy you are. Swallow if you like.


at first, i was going to type up a reply to your homophobic reply. but honestly, i think we're all better off not prompting you to reply with absolute garbage.

instead, i'll just let your crap live in infamy in a sig.
happy holidays and keep it classy, sir.
Last edited by atomeyes on Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby Kish84 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:30 pm

All this bickering about Bellwoods pricing, and I'm just happy that I can get it on tap in Kitchener now.

And for those interested, I had a Jutsu and Jelly King yday, prices were $7ish and $6ish, respectively for 16oz pours. Also had Folly Praxis, that was about $7.50/16oz.
"There's always money in the banana stand."
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby MatttthewGeorge » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:02 pm

Kish84 wrote:All this bickering about Bellwoods pricing, and I'm just happy that I can get it on tap in Kitchener now.

And for those interested, I had a Jutsu and Jelly King yday, prices were $7ish and $6ish, respectively for 16oz pours. Also had Folly Praxis, that was about $7.50/16oz.


Good times in KW right now!
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby Orval_Al » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:58 pm

atomeyes wrote:
Orval_Al wrote:Would it be totally out of line to suggest that craft breweries like Bellwoods simply post a brief explanation on their website why some of the beers cost as much as they do? I don't doubt that the overhead to make these specialty brews is a lot, but to the layman who just wants the beer, maybe meet them halfway? I'm sure if the greater population was a little more educated, they wouldn't be so up in arms.

Not every beer lover wants the tour. Doesn't mean they don't love the beer just as much.


you think a layman wants a barrel-aged fruited high-alcohol beer?
likely not.

their taproom does the explaining of what the beer is.
the bottle shop does the selling.
the customer and his/her palate should be able to understand the price and decide if it's worth it.

does Ferrari explain why their cars are $300 000 and not $30 000?


We're at the point in these crafty times when I would argue the layman is interested in craft beer, especially in urban areas.

As for Ferraris, people pay $300,000 so that they can be seen driving them. They don't pay $14 to be seen drinking a beer, at least I hope not.

Damn this cherry Farmageddon is good.
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Kish84
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby Kish84 » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:49 pm

I was about to post something, but decided to google to fact check, and well, forgot what I was about to write other than, how much more explanation does one need.

*Edit: I only googled this beer, so not sure if others have as much info on them, and don't really care enough to look.
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby gordonpeterwiebe » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:42 am

always entertaining to see the passion people have for bellwoods (for or against)!
It's been interesting watching this company grow as I live a block away from the ossington brewery and work a block away from the DuPont site (which is looking like a money pit - I think it will either sink them or prices are going to have to go even higher).

anyhow, I signed in to talk about the new 3MTM. I liked, didn't love, it last year... but, I'm a big fan of cherry stouts so I dug deep and bought a few for myself and to give as Xmas gifts.
well, no gift giving this year from me. not because I'm hoarding them but because I wouldn't want to inflict this beer on family. this is a hot boozy mess. just terrible (and, insulting at the price I had to pay).
I've had about 20 releases from these guys and enjoyed maybe 4 or 5. that's not a good batting average. I've said it before... but, this time I mean it: I'm done with this brewery.
I really want to support and like these guys but they just make it impossible.
I guess in the new year I'll sit on these bottles, hope they calm down, spend my money at Folly and start exploring Halo a bit more (don't get me started on the crime that is blood brothers!).
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby atomeyes » Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:47 am

gordonpeterwiebe wrote:always entertaining to see the passion people have for bellwoods (for or against)!
It's been interesting watching this company grow as I live a block away from the ossington brewery and work a block away from the DuPont site (which is looking like a money pit - I think it will either sink them or prices are going to have to go even higher).

anyhow, I signed in to talk about the new 3MTM. I liked, didn't love, it last year... but, I'm a big fan of cherry stouts so I dug deep and bought a few for myself and to give as Xmas gifts.
well, no gift giving this year from me. not because I'm hoarding them but because I wouldn't want to inflict this beer on family. this is a hot boozy mess. just terrible (and, insulting at the price I had to pay).
I've had about 20 releases from these guys and enjoyed maybe 4 or 5. that's not a good batting average. I've said it before... but, this time I mean it: I'm done with this brewery.
I really want to support and like these guys but they just make it impossible.
I guess in the new year I'll sit on these bottles, hope they calm down, spend my money at Folly and start exploring Halo a bit more (don't get me started on the crime that is blood brothers!).


i'll admit that i haven't had this year's 3MTM, so i'm opinionless.
but you've only liked 25% of their released? I find that to be a bit unusual.
i mean, like what you want, but last year alone, there was:
Gramma's Boy
Jelly King (and the 2 fruit variants and the brett variant)
Ghost Orchid (not my thing but others loved it)
Farmageddon (heard this batch is excellent)
Barn Owl (at least 2 of them, i think, and they were very good)
the Monogamy series (not sure how many were released this year)

and i know i'm missing a bunch more. but 25%?
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby gordonpeterwiebe » Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:15 am

I know we'll disagree... but, yeah, I think I'd be generous to say I liked even 25% of what I've had (and that's liked, I've never loved anything if I can recall).
I WANT to like them... but, honestly, I think their offerings have been in inline with what I'd expect from a small startup brewpub or a good garage brewer.
I stopped buying monogamies or any other ale/IPA from them after jutsu (specifically after the horrendous double jutsu). I find them amateurish and possessing basic brewing problems that they should have surpassed a long time ago.
maybe it comes down to just having physically different receptors on our tongues or "taste"... whatever it is, I'm done being disappointed and my wallet is done being depleted by them.
I wish I could, and am envious that I cannot, enjoy them as some others do and I wish them the best of luck though!
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby boney » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:43 am

gordonpeterwiebe wrote:I know we'll disagree... but, yeah, I think I'd be generous to say I liked even 25% of what I've had (and that's liked, I've never loved anything if I can recall).
I WANT to like them... but, honestly, I think their offerings have been in inline with what I'd expect from a small startup brewpub or a good garage brewer.
I stopped buying monogamies or any other ale/IPA from them after jutsu (specifically after the horrendous double jutsu). I find them amateurish and possessing basic brewing problems that they should have surpassed a long time ago.
maybe it comes down to just having physically different receptors on our tongues or "taste"... whatever it is, I'm done being disappointed and my wallet is done being depleted by them.
I wish I could, and am envious that I cannot, enjoy them as some others do and I wish them the best of luck though!


I understand where you are comeing from with Bellwoods hoppy offerings, but I honestly think they've sorted their problems. Up to about a year ago I though everything hoppy had slight diacetyl or DMS and I was ready to write off those beers as well. Super glad I didn't. Although the occasional Monogamy might be a little ho hum, all the other hoppy beers have been spot on for a while now. Probably the best they've ever been. Combined with their stouts and sours, I don't know if there is currently another brewery in Canada that had the same breadth and overall quality. I know perception differs though, so just my opinion. If you haven't revisited a Jutsu or Roman Candle recently, I'd highly recommend it. If you have and still don't dig them, that's cool too.
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Re: Bellwoods Brewery

Postby atomeyes » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:43 am

boney wrote:
gordonpeterwiebe wrote:I know we'll disagree... but, yeah, I think I'd be generous to say I liked even 25% of what I've had (and that's liked, I've never loved anything if I can recall).
I WANT to like them... but, honestly, I think their offerings have been in inline with what I'd expect from a small startup brewpub or a good garage brewer.
I stopped buying monogamies or any other ale/IPA from them after jutsu (specifically after the horrendous double jutsu). I find them amateurish and possessing basic brewing problems that they should have surpassed a long time ago.
maybe it comes down to just having physically different receptors on our tongues or "taste"... whatever it is, I'm done being disappointed and my wallet is done being depleted by them.
I wish I could, and am envious that I cannot, enjoy them as some others do and I wish them the best of luck though!


I understand where you are comeing from with Bellwoods hoppy offerings, but I honestly think they've sorted their problems. Up to about a year ago I though everything hoppy had slight diacetyl or DMS and I was ready to write off those beers as well. Super glad I didn't. Although the occasional Monogamy might be a little ho hum, all the other hoppy beers have been spot on for a while now. Probably the best they've ever been. Combined with their stouts and sours, I don't know if there is currently another brewery in Canada that had the same breadth and overall quality. I know perception differs though, so just my opinion. If you haven't revisited a Jutsu or Roman Candle recently, I'd highly recommend it. If you have and still don't dig them, that's cool too.


i'm curious bout the DMS and diacetyl claims that you (and others) make. not saying you're wrong. i, for one, don't recall picking any of that up in any of their beer.
but DMS and diacetyl come from 2 separate issues in the brewing process. DMS is from shitty boiling technique or kettle design. the latter's likely not the case since their brewhouse was designed by Premier, which has a very good reputation. i also kind of doubt they were not boiling their beer for the requisite 1 hr. so the only other area in which DMS would sneak in would be from infected fermentations. and that's more of the crappy cabbage smell/flavour to it, versus the corn. and i don't recall ever detecting that in a BW beer. one commercial beer that i used to get DMS in was Mill St Organic. blech.
diacetyl? i can see people claiming that. again, i haven't smelled or tasted it, and they don't make any styles as of late where i'd expect there to be any diacetyl (i.e. a poorly done lager). i can see a claim that there's diacetyl in their darker beer, like Lost River or some of their bigger beer, but i'm pretty sure that's the crystal malt speaking. considering what yeast is likely used in the darker beer, again, i'd be pretty shocked for there to be diacetyl. were you getting it in any of cleaner, blonder beer?

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