Bellwoods Brewery

[Coronaeus]

I think the lower bottle limits are working. I'm sure a lot of people who would have bought 8, buy 4, and aren't up to making a second visit to the area.

I'd also suggest the number of special releases over the past several months likely has wallets feeling a little thin.

I thought the first batch of Skeleton Key was great once the booze mellowed out a bit. I'm planning to have some in the pub over the next week or two, but am saving all my bottles for at least 9 months.

[AugustusRex]

I think Bellwoods has managed to keep up with demand. Once they have their production brewery they can use the original location to brew these types of special releases all the time.

[El Pinguino]

Skeleton Key is still around because it is not that good. Spiced brews don't do anywhere near as well as a BBA or Cognac barrel aged good imperial stout. This spiced brew was pretty bad. I won't try another but that is my personal taste though. BOYD is more up most people's alley so it sells quicker. At 80% a Bourbon County you will get a brisk movement of stock.

I know a lot of beer geeks who despise bourbon barrel aged beers, but enjoy cognac, rum, pinot/wine barrel aged beers. So not sure about that argument.

But I agree about this beer not being as great as possible right now. it's a bit hot/messy. it will become something great in a year or so.

[rfrf]

Skeleton Key is still around because it is not that good. Spiced brews don't do anywhere near as well as a BBA or Cognac barrel aged good imperial stout. This spiced brew was pretty bad. I won't try another but that is my personal taste though. BOYD is more up most people's alley so it sells quicker. At 80% a Bourbon County you will get a brisk movement of stock.

I know a lot of beer geeks who despise bourbon barrel aged beers, but enjoy cognac, rum, pinot/wine barrel aged beers. So not sure about that argument.

But I agree about this beer not being as great as possible right now. it's a bit hot/messy. it will become something great in a year or so.

I find you really have to let this beer warm up to get the best out of it.

[jeremyg]

really not a fan of this batch

[DaveBar]

Skeleton Key is still around because it is not that good. Spiced brews don't do anywhere near as well as a BBA or Cognac barrel aged good imperial stout. This spiced brew was pretty bad. I won't try another but that is my personal taste though. BOYD is more up most people's alley so it sells quicker. At 80% a Bourbon County you will get a brisk movement of stock.

I know a lot of beer geeks who despise bourbon barrel aged beers, but enjoy cognac, rum, pinot/wine barrel aged beers. So not sure about that argument.

But I agree about this beer not being as great as possible right now. it's a bit hot/messy. it will become something great in a year or so.

No worries! I'm an old wine connoisseur that moved to beer and have a cognac, scotch and bourbon collection that would make most people's toes curl so BBA brews are definitely for me. For others not so much but can understand where they are coming from. To tell you the truth I enjoy a good BBA stout, heavy hop handed IPA or a quality Tripel or quad over a spiced brew or one with a lower quality edge. Different strokes for different folks! I just realize that there is definitely a value to dollar aspect that must be addressed and with the 500ml format (for all their brews) at the price point and I am disgusted at the cash grab. Shame on you Bellwoods. Shame on YOU!

[TheSevenDuffs]

No worries! I'm an old wine connoisseur that moved to beer and have a cognac, scotch and bourbon collection that would make most people's toes curl so BBA brews are definitely for me. For others not so much but can understand where they are coming from. To tell you the truth I enjoy a good BBA stout, heavy hop handed IPA or a quality Tripel or quad over a spiced brew or one with a lower quality edge. Different strokes for different folks! I just realize that there is definitely a value to dollar aspect that must be addressed and with the 500ml format (for all their brews) at the price point and I am disgusted at the cash grab. Shame on you Bellwoods. Shame on YOU!

To each his own. I think this year's Skeleton Key is fantastic and I am happy to pay what they are charging for the bottles. You seem to be one of the people who can't stop beating the dead horse about Bellwoods prices. I'm not sure why you even bother going to Bellwoods, but I guess you have your reasons...

[atomeyes]

No worries! I'm an old wine connoisseur that moved to beer and have a cognac, scotch and bourbon collection that would make most people's toes curl so BBA brews are definitely for me. For others not so much but can understand where they are coming from. To tell you the truth I enjoy a good BBA stout, heavy hop handed IPA or a quality Tripel or quad over a spiced brew or one with a lower quality edge. Different strokes for different folks! I just realize that there is definitely a value to dollar aspect that must be addressed and with the 500ml format (for all their brews) at the price point and I am disgusted at the cash grab. Shame on you Bellwoods. Shame on YOU!

To each his own. I think this year's Skeleton Key is fantastic and I am happy to pay what they are charging for the bottles. You seem to be one of the people who can't stop beating the dead horse about Bellwoods prices. I'm not sure why you even bother going to Bellwoods, but I guess you have your reasons...

i still don't understand his post.
especially if he has a cognac and scotch collection that would make my toes curl. unless by that he means "the quality of scotch is so bad your toes will curl with pain."
want a cash grab? by a good to excellent scotch and pay over $100/bottle for it.
file DaveBar under "posters that both don't get it and that i don't get."

[midlife crisis]

i still don't understand his post.
especially if he has a cognac and scotch collection that would make my toes curl. unless by that he means "the quality of scotch is so bad your toes will curl with pain."
want a cash grab? by a good to excellent scotch and pay over $100/bottle for it.
file DaveBar under "posters that both don't get it and that i don't get."

I don't see what is so hard to understand. Skeleton Key and 3 MTM did not sell out quickly because (a) they were not very good this year; and (b) they were really expensive. Does that clarify it sufficiently?

[ckoop]

i still don't understand his post.
especially if he has a cognac and scotch collection that would make my toes curl. unless by that he means "the quality of scotch is so bad your toes will curl with pain."
want a cash grab? by a good to excellent scotch and pay over $100/bottle for it.
file DaveBar under "posters that both don't get it and that i don't get."

I don't see what is so hard to understand. Skeleton Key and 3 MTM did not sell out quickly because (a) they were not very good this year; and (b) they were really expensive. Does that clarify it sufficiently?

I really think there are a variety of factors why neither of those sold out quickly, but this whole argument about them being too expensive is rediculous. Value plays a big role in how I evaluate beers and decide whether I will buy them again, which is why I rarely will buy their IPAs. When Great Lakes is selling 30ml of beer for $1-$2 less for a similar product, I just can't be bothered to buy Bellwoods' IPAs. But as many have already said, $12-$13 for 500ml BA product is probably the industry average within canada and even the us. Maybe you don't buy a lot of BA beers in the states, but here is just a sample (all usd):

BA Narwhal 17.99 750ml
BCBS 9.99 500ml
Avery BA vanilla bean 13.99 650ml
Almanac farm to barrel 11.99 375ml
BA blackout stout 17.95 750ml

I could go on and didn't even bother listing breweries that are similar sized as Bellwoods who charge waaaaay more than the above prices (e.g., three Floyd's charges $30 min for any BA beer). BA beers are expensive, they have a large cost associated with them.

I'm not going to discuss quality or taste, because that's all subjective and really doesn't factor into the cost to produce the beer. I think the main reasons these aren't selling out in a day or weekend is that they've pumped them out too close together, they are not "traditionally" popular styles (same reason the wonderful lambda sat for 3 weeks), and canada just isn't in a frenzy for hoarding multiples of these for trading since these only have a niche trade market within canada, most people are not maxing out their allocation from what I hear/observed.

Trust me, this is coming from someone who likes a lot of their beer but thinks many of their brews are severely overrated.

[Craig]

Lambda, for whatever reason, has always been the one to not sell out right away. I'm not really sure why, it's a great beer. Maybe because world class quads are actually something the LCBO stock at a great price?

[TheSevenDuffs]

Lambda, for whatever reason, has always been the one to not sell out right away. I'm not really sure why, it's a great beer. Maybe because world class quads are actually something the LCBO stock at a great price?

I think it's just a style that people tend to not go crazy over (myself included). I enjoy Lambda, but don't need a bunch in my cellar. When it comes to cellaring beer, it seems that the most popular styles, by a long shot are imperial stouts (including barrel aged versions of course) and wild ales/lambic. Those tend to be the styles that most beer nerds hoard in their cellars.

[TheSevenDuffs]

i still don't understand his post.
especially if he has a cognac and scotch collection that would make my toes curl. unless by that he means "the quality of scotch is so bad your toes will curl with pain."
want a cash grab? by a good to excellent scotch and pay over $100/bottle for it.
file DaveBar under "posters that both don't get it and that i don't get."

I don't see what is so hard to understand. Skeleton Key and 3 MTM did not sell out quickly because (a) they were not very good this year; and (b) they were really expensive. Does that clarify it sufficiently?

I really think there are a variety of factors why neither of those sold out quickly, but this whole argument about them being too expensive is rediculous. Value plays a big role in how I evaluate beers and decide whether I will buy them again, which is why I rarely will buy their IPAs. When Great Lakes is selling 30ml of beer for $1-$2 less for a similar product, I just can't be bothered to buy Bellwoods' IPAs. But as many have already said, $12-$13 for 500ml BA product is probably the industry average within canada and even the us. Maybe you don't buy a lot of BA beers in the states, but here is just a sample (all usd):

BA Narwhal 17.99 750ml
BCBS 9.99 500ml
Avery BA vanilla bean 13.99 650ml
Almanac farm to barrel 11.99 375ml
BA blackout stout 17.95 750ml

I could go on and didn't even bother listing breweries that are similar sized as Bellwoods who charge waaaaay more than the above prices (e.g., three Floyd's charges $30 min for any BA beer). BA beers are expensive, they have a large cost associated with them.

I'm not going to discuss quality or taste, because that's all subjective and really doesn't factor into the cost to produce the beer. I think the main reasons these aren't selling out in a day or weekend is that they've pumped them out too close together, they are not "traditionally" popular styles (same reason the wonderful lambda sat for 3 weeks), and canada just isn't in a frenzy for hoarding multiples of these for trading since these only have a niche trade market within canada, most people are not maxing out their allocation from what I hear/observed.

Trust me, this is coming from someone who likes a lot of their beer but thinks many of their brews are severely overrated.

Very intelligent post. We could use more of those on this subject.

[midlife crisis]

i still don't understand his post.
especially if he has a cognac and scotch collection that would make my toes curl. unless by that he means "the quality of scotch is so bad your toes will curl with pain."
want a cash grab? by a good to excellent scotch and pay over $100/bottle for it.
file DaveBar under "posters that both don't get it and that i don't get."

I don't see what is so hard to understand. Skeleton Key and 3 MTM did not sell out quickly because (a) they were not very good this year; and (b) they were really expensive. Does that clarify it sufficiently?

I really think there are a variety of factors why neither of those sold out quickly, but this whole argument about them being too expensive is rediculous. Value plays a big role in how I evaluate beers and decide whether I will buy them again, which is why I rarely will buy their IPAs. When Great Lakes is selling 30ml of beer for $1-$2 less for a similar product, I just can't be bothered to buy Bellwoods' IPAs. But as many have already said, $12-$13 for 500ml BA product is probably the industry average within canada and even the us. Maybe you don't buy a lot of BA beers in the states, but here is just a sample (all usd):

BA Narwhal 17.99 750ml
BCBS 9.99 500ml
Avery BA vanilla bean 13.99 650ml
Almanac farm to barrel 11.99 375ml
BA blackout stout 17.95 750ml

I could go on and didn't even bother listing breweries that are similar sized as Bellwoods who charge waaaaay more than the above prices (e.g., three Floyd's charges $30 min for any BA beer). BA beers are expensive, they have a large cost associated with them.

I'm not going to discuss quality or taste, because that's all subjective and really doesn't factor into the cost to produce the beer. I think the main reasons these aren't selling out in a day or weekend is that they've pumped them out too close together, they are not "traditionally" popular styles (same reason the wonderful lambda sat for 3 weeks), and canada just isn't in a frenzy for hoarding multiples of these for trading since these only have a niche trade market within canada, most people are not maxing out their allocation from what I hear/observed.

Trust me, this is coming from someone who likes a lot of their beer but thinks many of their brews are severely overrated.

I don't disagree and was perhaps being a bit intentionally provocative. I am fully aware of the necessary price structure for BA beers, and gladly pay the going rate for Double Tempest, for example. And Bellwoods is, for the most part, great, don't get me wrong. But these last two releases that I referred to missed the mark by a wide margin, IMO.

[BakaGaijin]

Comparisions to the US is a bit tricky. It's not really apples to apples. The US has legislated separation between brewer, distributor, and retailer. Each player takes a cut which increases costs significantly.