The Bar Towel

Funny, I just had the same thought about Cascade -- one of my favourite breweries in NA. I can't even imagine that those are gonna retail for here.

I get the price bitching about 2nd rate Ontario Brewers, but if you can't afford Bellwoods, don't act like it's Bellwood's fault.

atomeyes wrote:

BakaGaijin wrote:

gjkerr wrote:Nice release just announced for tomorrow (Dec 22) - cherry Farmageddon and 3 Minutes to Midnight - $14 each; 12 bottle limits on both. Available at both bottle shops.

Prices keep going up. They ramp up production AND increase prices?!? $14 for a non-BA stout is a bit silly. They will eventually need to find distro cause they ain't gonna be able to sell the increased volume at these prices from two locations.

maybe make a google before ya rant.

you may want to do a 2 hour road trip to Buffalo to see how much upper echelon barrel-aged stouts with fruit sell for. even compare Bellwoods to the 33 cL bottles from Allagash (that will cost you close to $20 cnd) before you cry about beer prices.

Winey Bastard: 750 mL, $15. bigger, but no fruit. and not as good of a beer as 3MTM. but please, tell us more.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with Bellwoods' prices.
There is absolutely something wrong with consumers' expectations pricewise when it comes to barrel aged and fruit-addition beer. especially when made in downtown Toronto (which is where 3MTM was made). we pay Toronto rents for these beer, so if you want Wisconsin or Michigan prices for BA beer? go there and support their industry and leave more Ontario cherry beer for us fuckers

Maybe a google before you reply

You might want to research the beer distribution system in the U.S. before you compare prices in Buffalo. 50% of craft beer prices in Buffalo are due to distributor and retail mark-up's. Bellwoods has neither of those.

If you want to compare Bellwoods retail with Buffalo than those Bellwoods beers would be $22 each with distributor/retailer mark-up's + shipping cost's added on.

BakaGaijin wrote: Maybe a google before you reply

You might want to research the beer distribution system in the U.S. before you compare prices in Buffalo. 50% of craft beer prices in Buffalo are due to distributor and retail mark-up's. Bellwoods has neither of those.

If you want to compare Bellwoods retail with Buffalo than those Bellwoods beers would be $22 each with distributor/retailer mark-up's + shipping cost's added on.

nice cherry pick, dude. i think 5 of us have said that you're out to lunch regarding your pricing statement, but please, educate us more on the New York beer distribution model. and don't talk about the price for Winey Bastard or XX Tempest or any other big Ontario beer that, frankly, falls a bit short taste-wise than past Bellwoods 3MTM releases.

or ignore my statement about buying beer in Wisconsin. New Glarus beer are ridiculously dirt cheap. so is their rent, labour and fruit costs. in Toronto, a city of 4 million, everything is exponentially more costly and you should expect to pay that with your local purchases. even the fuel costs to drive their fan to and from their (old) barrel room is higher than what a Wisconsin brewery is.

bottom line: look before you leap (off the Bellwoods bridge). if you aren't cool with spending almost $15/beer, then Ontairo barrel-age small(er) batch releases aren't your thing. don't blame the brewery. there are logistics and a process behind it. and shame on Bellwoods for trying to make a buck. shame!

atomeyes wrote:nice cherry pick, dude.

Very punny.

Here's a list of some recent barrel aged stouts from Ontario brewers.

Double Tempest / 650ml / $15
Kentucky Bastard / 750ml / $16
3 Mins to Midnight / 500 ml / $14
Bourbon Barrel Zombie Apocalypse / 500ml / $10
Bourbon Barrel Hearts Collide / 500ml / $11
Solstice / 650ml / $15
Weendigo / 500ml / $9

I think it's fair to say Bellwoods' prices are on the high side, but they've always been expensive. There are better deals to be had and taste is subjective, so spend your money as you wish.

jp_jkl wrote:

atomeyes wrote:nice cherry pick, dude.

Very punny.

Here's a list of some recent barrel aged stouts from Ontario brewers.

Double Tempest / 650ml / $15
Kentucky Bastard / 750ml / $16
3 Mins to Midnight / 500 ml / $14
Bourbon Barrel Zombie Apocalypse / 500ml / $10
Bourbon Barrel Hearts Collide / 500ml / $11
Solstice / 650ml / $15
Weendigo / 500ml / $9

I think it's fair to say Bellwoods' prices are on the high side, but they've always been expensive. There are better deals to be had and taste is subjective, so spend your money as you wish.

so immediately discount Weendigo and Kentucky Bastard because of the lower rent. but a 500 mL bottle of kentucky bastard would be $11. so, basically, a $1 toronto tax, but not really, because the same amount of labour goes into filling a bottle regardless of the size.

also, Weendigo was a gross, hot mess when it was first released.

So i see the prices being the same or similar. add in fruit and, bang, there's your explanation

Masterplan wrote:I get the price bitching about 2nd rate Ontario Brewers, but if you can't afford Bellwoods, don't act like it's Bellwood's fault.

Couldn't agree more. The bitching about the pricing on these bottles was a given. Always seems to be the same people too. If people don't like the prices, they can take their business elsewhere.

Bellwoods prices may be higher than other Ontario breweries, but the product is better than most, if not all of the local competition on the barrel aged front. Bellwoods BA beer pricing is also not out of line with the American competition - even when taking the dollar at par.

To all Bellwoods fans: fill your boots with $14 barrel aged stouts, its your money, do with it what you want. But please don't go screaming obscenities at anyone who disagrees with you.

I don't care about how much a brewery spends on rent or fruit ... I prefer my beer without high overhead or (sour) fruit.

All this talk of barrel aged stouts is making me thirsty, think I'll order a case of http://www.lcbo.com/lcbo/product/le-tro ... F17x_krLb1

TheSevenDuffs wrote:

Masterplan wrote:I get the price bitching about 2nd rate Ontario Brewers, but if you can't afford Bellwoods, don't act like it's Bellwood's fault.

Couldn't agree more. The bitching about the pricing on these bottles was a given. Always seems to be the same people too. If people don't like the prices, they can take their business elsewhere.

Bellwoods prices may be higher than other Ontario breweries, but the product is better than most, if not all of the local competition on the barrel aged front. Bellwoods BA beer pricing is also not out of line with the American competition - even when taking the dollar at par.

It's funny, I bet in a few years we will be recalling wistfully, the good old days of $12-$16 BA offerings. If the US market is any predictor for what's going to happen here at all, don't be surprised if in less than 3 years Bellwoods BA beers are $20 and the rest of the market will be right in line with that. It's no knock on them or any other brewery, as they are businesses and they should charge what the market will pay and we are nowhere near the top end of what people will have no problem paying for a LUXURY item.

I mean Jester King just popped all their 500ml fruited sours up $4 this year to $20usd and they have no problem selling out the same weekend they are released. Cycle has gradually upped their prices to $30 for 650 ml BA bombers and those sell out somewhat quickly. The list goes on. Breweries in the states are realizing that there is a feverish demand for BA beers or even beers with some adjuncts tossed in and they are reaping the rewards. I can't imagine some of the top end, sought after breweries in Canada won't follow sooner than later.

portwood wrote:To all Bellwoods fans: fill your boots with $14 barrel aged stouts, its your money, do with it what you want. But please don't go screaming obscenities at anyone who disagrees with you.

I don't care about how much a brewery spends on rent or fruit ... I prefer my beer without high overhead or (sour) fruit.

All this talk of barrel aged stouts is making me thirsty, think I'll order a case of http://www.lcbo.com/lcbo/product/le-tro ... F17x_krLb1

ah yes, this is the guy who lives in Newmarket or something and then posted a rant about Bellwoods and how he had to WAIT IN LINE TO DRINK BEER. and something about a scotch or bourbon club. and how you pooped on everything about Bellwoods because it just wasn't YOUR thing.

and you're taking the time to come back and poop on it again? cool.

so you like low overhead beer that doesn't have fruit?
Molson Ex, Lab Blue, etc aren't bartowel beer. not sure what you're looking for from this group.

ckoop wrote:
I mean Jester King just popped all their 500ml fruited sours up $4 this year to $20usd and they have no problem selling out the same weekend they are released. Cycle has gradually upped their prices to $30 for 650 ml BA bombers and those sell out somewhat quickly. The list goes on. Breweries in the states are realizing that there is a feverish demand for BA beers or even beers with some adjuncts tossed in and they are reaping the rewards. I can't imagine some of the top end, sought after breweries in Canada won't follow sooner than later.

everyone's barrel aging beer and there is a finite quantity of barrels out there.
plus not all barrel aged beer turn out. you have to dump batches, and that's $300+ on a barrel that you lose plus the beer in there.
it's like people who are mad at the cost of beef and not realizing why cheap food is cheap and expensive food can be expensive

atomeyes wrote: ah yes, this is the guy who lives in Newmarket or something and then posted a rant about Bellwoods and how he had to WAIT IN LINE TO DRINK BEER. and something about a scotch or bourbon club. and how you pooped on everything about Bellwoods ...

First, its not Newmarket, its Markham, but yeah, I understand the contempt from some of you smug Torontonians for those of us that don't live in the centre of the universe.

Second, I didn't wait in any line to buy or drink beer. If there was a line-up of more than a couple of people I wouldn't have waited.

Third, the whisky comparison was to point out how top quality beer is better value than Scotch and Bourbon.

Finally, you're the one doing the pooping - on anyone who disagrees with you. I, and others, merely pointed out it doesn't float our boat at the prices they want to charge. I wish them good luck with the expansion and hope there are enough people willing to pay their asking price. I won't be one of them - I've ticked enough of their beers on untappd.

Popped by the Hafis Rd location yesterday and was impressed. Very spacious, self serve to-go fridges and you can order/drink beers on site. You can see the whole brewing setup from the retail/seating area. My wallet is in for some trauma with this beer being much more accessible to me.

Would it be totally out of line to suggest that craft breweries like Bellwoods simply post a brief explanation on their website why some of the beers cost as much as they do? I don't doubt that the overhead to make these specialty brews is a lot, but to the layman who just wants the beer, maybe meet them halfway? I'm sure if the greater population was a little more educated, they wouldn't be so up in arms.

Not every beer lover wants the tour. Doesn't mean they don't love the beer just as much.

Orval_Al wrote:Would it be totally out of line to suggest that craft breweries like Bellwoods simply post a brief explanation on their website why some of the beers cost as much as they do? I don't doubt that the overhead to make these specialty brews is a lot, but to the layman who just wants the beer, maybe meet them halfway? I'm sure if the greater population was a little more educated, they wouldn't be so up in arms.

Not every beer lover wants the tour. Doesn't mean they don't love the beer just as much.

you think a layman wants a barrel-aged fruited high-alcohol beer?
likely not.

their taproom does the explaining of what the beer is.
the bottle shop does the selling.
the customer and his/her palate should be able to understand the price and decide if it's worth it.

does Ferrari explain why their cars are $300 000 and not $30 000?