Looking for Sour recipes

[matt7215]

Aret there any commercial sour beers avail. in Ontario?

none that you can get any useful dregs from. when do you plan to brew? i could send you some homebrewed sours or possibly share a commercial bottle with you and you could pitch the dregs.

Wow, that's generous Matt.

Not sure, I'm just working on getting the ingredients gathered up right now. I have a friend who has some Petrus and Duchesse de Borgnone.. would those work?

Duchesse is filtered, Petrus Aged Pale would work, not sure about the Petrus Oud Bruin

[xocoatl]

If repitching dregs, can you cover the bottle with saran wrap and save it for some time before pitching it, without ill effect?

I have a co-worker who likes to drink lambics he picks up on trips home to chicago a few times a year, but its doubtfull the timing of him drinking and me having something ready to go will work out.

If I could just get him to cover the bottles and save them for me, that could work.

[matt7215]

If repitching dregs, can you cover the bottle with saran wrap and save it for some time before pitching it, without ill effect?

I have a co-worker who likes to drink lambics he picks up on trips home to chicago a few times a year, but its doubtfull the timing of him drinking and me having something ready to go will work out.

If I could just get him to cover the bottles and save them for me, that could work.

i wouldnt trust that method. just tell him to grab some DME and make a starter the next time he cracks a bottle.

what are you trying to brew walter?? i have various strains of bugs on the go right now, you could stop by my store and pick some up if you need to.

[xocoatl]

No specific plans right now, but would like to give something a try later this year, probably once the weather warms up again. Seeing the comments about pitching the dregs just got me thinking about all those good dregs going to waste.

[elproducto]

Heading to a buddies place, and we are going to kill some sours, and Orvals. What's the best way for me to keep the dregs? Should I take some DME and a couple of sanitized jars?

[matt7215]

Heading to a buddies place, and we are going to kill some sours, and Orvals. What's the best way for me to keep the dregs? Should I take some DME and a couple of sanitized jars?

yep, make about 500ml with a grav of 1.030 - 1.040 and pitch all the dregs into it.

if you dont have a bung and airlock for you jar you can use tinfoil over the top until you plan to use the dregs.

however without an airlock you risk creating acetic acid so if your going to store it for awhile with no airlock you'll want to decant the liquid off the yeast before pitching rather then pitch the whole thing.

[elproducto]

Thanks

I'll just take the growler I usually use for starters with an airlock. Could I wash it, like I do with my normal yeast? That way I can store it in sterilized jars in the fridge?

[emjay]

berliner weisse:

http://www.ratebeer.com/Recipe.asp?RecipeID=110

makes a great beer! id add some bottle dregs from a bretted beer as well but you dont have to.

Lambic:

50% Pilsner Malt
25% Light Malted Wheat
25% Flaked Wheat

1 oz (or less) of the lowest AA hops you can find (preferrably aged and oxidized)

mash hop

try to aim for collecting about 7 gallons of 1.035 - 1.040 wort and boil it down to 5 gallons or 1.050 (whatever comes first)

cool as per your normal process

pitch the Wyeast Lambic blend or Roselare and whatever bottle dregs you have from sours and bretted beers.

hide the fermentor in a place you wont disturb it and ferment in the mid 60's

ferment in primary for one year minimum

bottle and wait 3 months minimum

enjoy

1.050 is very high for a Berliner Weisse. 1.032 is the max OG when brewing to style... but of course that's not a requirement. The ~3%abv is very good to lacto growth though and I'd recommend doing it this way at least the first time.

I just finished up a Berliner Weisse on Sunday, and what I went with was similar in some respects:

4lbs pale wheat malt
2lbs Pilsner malt in a 19L batch.

Mash hop (I used 1oz 3%AA Hallertauer)

Single decoction (considered true to style, vital to the complexity, and also functions to isomerize the hops)

Sacc rest @ 149 for 90 minutes (recommended by Jamil Z in Brewing Classic Styles in order to ensure complete starch conversion at such a low temp)

15 minute boil (traditionally it isn't even boiled, which provides less control in terms of bugs, so this is the Brewer's call)

Pitch White Labs WLP 630 Berliner Weisse Blend
This German yeast/lactose blend is a "Platinum Series" strain produced only in January and February, so now is the time to do it! Berliner Weisse is all about the lactic acid, so I don't know that I would pitch random sour dregs into my first batch, but I generally prefer to brew to style at least once to give myself a benchmark from which to deviate in the future. Also, since good, useable sours can be difficult to get a hold of in Ontario, using the White Labs product is convenient. Do NOT make a starter though - not only is it unnecessary for such a low gravity beer, but White Labs has formulated it to give both the yeast and the lacto a fighting chance... lacto can actually often be frustrating to get a good hold.

The ratio of pale wheat malt to pilsner malt can be adjusted to your liking though... anything from 67-33 to 33-67 is acceptable, and a lot of people hit the middle with a 50-50 blend. It may be helpful to have rice hulls or something on hand with a wheat-heavy blend in case of a stuck sparge, but even with 2/3rd's wheat I had no issue.

[matt7215]

berliner weisse:

http://www.ratebeer.com/Recipe.asp?RecipeID=110

makes a great beer! id add some bottle dregs from a bretted beer as well but you dont have to.

Lambic:

50% Pilsner Malt
25% Light Malted Wheat
25% Flaked Wheat

1 oz (or less) of the lowest AA hops you can find (preferrably aged and oxidized)

mash hop

try to aim for collecting about 7 gallons of 1.035 - 1.040 wort and boil it down to 5 gallons or 1.050 (whatever comes first)

cool as per your normal process

pitch the Wyeast Lambic blend or Roselare and whatever bottle dregs you have from sours and bretted beers.

hide the fermentor in a place you wont disturb it and ferment in the mid 60's

ferment in primary for one year minimum

bottle and wait 3 months minimum

enjoy

1.050 is very high for a Berliner Weisse. 1.032 is the max OG when brewing to style... but of course that's not a requirement. The ~3%abv is very good to lacto growth though and I'd recommend doing it this way at least the first time.

I just finished up a Berliner Weisse on Sunday, and what I went with was similar in some respects:

4lbs pale wheat malt
2lbs Pilsner malt in a 19L batch.

Mash hop (I used 1oz 3%AA Hallertauer)

Single decoction (considered true to style, vital to the complexity, and also functions to isomerize the hops)

Sacc rest @ 149 for 90 minutes (recommended by Jamil Z in Brewing Classic Styles in order to ensure complete starch conversion at such a low temp)

15 minute boil (traditionally it isn't even boiled, which provides less control in terms of bugs, so this is the Brewer's call)

Pitch White Labs WLP 630 Berliner Weisse Blend
This German yeast/lactose blend is a "Platinum Series" strain produced only in January and February, so now is the time to do it! Berliner Weisse is all about the lactic acid, so I don't know that I would pitch random sour dregs into my first batch, but I generally prefer to brew to style at least once to give myself a benchmark from which to deviate in the future. Also, since good, useable sours can be difficult to get a hold of in Ontario, using the White Labs product is convenient. Do NOT make a starter though - not only is it unnecessary for such a low gravity beer, but White Labs has formulated it to give both the yeast and the lacto a fighting chance... lacto can actually often be frustrating to get a good hold.

The ratio of pale wheat malt to pilsner malt can be adjusted to your liking though... anything from 67-33 to 33-67 is acceptable, and a lot of people hit the middle with a 50-50 blend. It may be helpful to have rice hulls or something on hand with a wheat-heavy blend in case of a stuck sparge, but even with 2/3rd's wheat I had no issue.

i dont think you read my post very well. i posted 2 recipes. the 1.050 recipe is for lambic not berliner weisse.

[elproducto]

Anyone have any luck innoculating oak chips with bugs? I'm going to use some oak chips with my Flanders, but wondered if I can startup an infection on the leftover chips with say some Orval Dregs, or Grand Cru?

[JerCraigs]

No specific plans right now, but would like to give something a try later this year, probably once the weather warms up again. Seeing the comments about pitching the dregs just got me thinking about all those good dregs going to waste.

One of the Halifax homebrewers had a lambic on the go in the basement. Every time he finished a sour beer he'd dump the dregs into it. Possibly the most sour beer I have ever tasted! It was a bit one dimensional (it wasn't blended) but pretty intense.

[markaberrant]

One of the Halifax homebrewers had a lambic on the go in the basement. Every time he finished a sour beer he'd dump the dregs into it. Possibly the most sour beer I have ever tasted! It was a bit one dimensional (it wasn't blended) but pretty intense.

In no way does that mean it was the result of adding commercial dregs. An overly sour beer can be due to an abundance of acetic acid, which is the result of too much oxygen exposure.

[JerCraigs]

The keg wasn't entirely full so that would make sense. Although I think he had it on CO2.

[elproducto]

That looks perfect! Problem is I have no access to commercial sours, but I'll give it a shot. Do you just pitch the roeselare? No Ale yeast or anything? Also, what size batch is that?

You can add commercial sour dregs anytime, they really add to the overall complexity. Even something like Petrus Aged Pale Ale or Lindemans Cuvee Rene do a good job.

I just pitch the Roeselare (which does contain some ale yeast), but if there is no activity after 48 hours, I'll pitch a pack of ale yeast, something that isn't overly attenuative like Coopers, Muntons or S-04. You don't want the ale yeast to chew up all the sugars right away, you want the bugs to slowly break them down. My gravity is usually around 1.020 when I rack to secondary (my aged batches are all around 1.007 at the moment).

I also forgot to mention that I add 1oz of French medium toast oak cubes to the secondary.

I target a batch size of 5.5 gallons.

So do you just rack to secondary when the gravity is 1.020, whether it's done or not?

[markaberrant]

No I just rack it when primary is done, although this year I am planning to just leave it in primary the entire time.