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Nano brewing systems - Brew-Magic, PicoBrew, Brewbot?

Post your own tasty recipes or homebrewing advice here.

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DarcyK
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:08 am
Location: Toronto

Nano brewing systems - Brew-Magic, PicoBrew, Brewbot?

Post by DarcyK »

If you have experience with a nano brewing system, I'd love to hear form you. It's been 15 years since I last brewed, and that was with a rag tag combination of gear. It was fine at the time, but I'm willing to invest in a serious system that can automate some of the prep, brewing, and fermentation, and also give more control (temperature, aeration, etc).

Googling the options available - wow, information overload, and don't know where to start. I've found these systems online, and there are probably others, too.

Brewbot - http://www.brewbot.io
-- Claims it can be run entirely off an iOS app

Brew-Magic Pub Brewer PR911 - https://www.brewmagic.com/pub-brewer-system/
-- Looks heavy duty; pub grade would be several magnitudes of my brewing capacity

PicoBrew Zymatic - http://picobrew.com/Shop/Default.cshtml
-- Microsoft exec's pet project. Something a tech guy designs makes me think it'll be functional, practical and economical. Just a guess.

WilliamsWarn - http://www.williamswarn.com/Shop/The-Wi ... 9QC9WK9KSM
--Drop-dead gorgeous looking, and a Rolex price tag to match

Feel free to tell me I'm crazy to look at these. I'm also open to a brew-on-premise that has great equipment (and that would let me brew wild and sour beers, and potentially barrel age). And homebrew clubs, where I'd be happy to assist and split batches.

Thanks in advance for any experience/recommendations.

iguenard
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:25 pm
Location: Ottawa
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Post by iguenard »

Quebec-made Stainless Steel Experts in Boisbriand make the BC-50, a new version of what I use at home... its pretty freaking nice: http://www.stainlesssteelspec.com/html/an/aframe.html

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groulxsome
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:24 pm

Post by groulxsome »

Are you really set on having a turn-key system? What size batches are you interested in making? How much space do you have? What's the budget?

If you haven't brewed in a while, it's a rather large gamble to invest in a turn-key system. Would you be interested in building a system using parts from Ontario Beer Kegs which might have some manual temperature control (a more standard homebrew setup) or are you set on automation?

ercousin
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:05 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by ercousin »

If you are going to invest big time into homebrewing be sure not to skimp on fermentation temperature control and yeast management. Far too often do I see people with fancy 3 vessel systems fermenting their beer at ambient temperatures....

Perhaps you should check The Electric Brewery for inspiration: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/

If I were going all out on a brewery I would probably go with his control panel and stainless parts and vessels from: http://conical-fermenter.com/

DarcyK
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:08 am
Location: Toronto

Post by DarcyK »

iguenard wrote:Quebec-made Stainless Steel Experts in Boisbriand make the BC-50, a new version of what I use at home... its pretty freaking nice: http://www.stainlesssteelspec.com/html/an/aframe.html
That's mighty nice looking. I think I'd need a basement or garage for that. And 50L minimum batches are a bit bigger than I'm looking to do.
ercousin wrote: If you are going to invest big time into homebrewing be sure not to skimp on fermentation temperature control and yeast management. Far too often do I see people with fancy 3 vessel systems fermenting their beer at ambient temperatures....

Perhaps you should check The Electric Brewery for inspiration: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/

If I were going all out on a brewery I would probably go with his control panel and stainless parts and vessels from: http://conical-fermenter.com/
Optimized brewing cycles and temperature control -- a system that can precisely adjust for different styles of beer would be ideal (yeast management - I'm lazy and would probably buy a liquid culture every batch, like I used to). The Electric Brewery looks well designed and competent. Seems 20-30 square feet would be needed, plus wiring for a control box, which is out of the questions for me, right now. I'm quite envious of anyone with a basement, garage, or shed, right about now.
groulxsome wrote:Are you really set on having a turn-key system? What size batches are you interested in making? How much space do you have? What's the budget?

If you haven't brewed in a while, it's a rather large gamble to invest in a turn-key system. Would you be interested in building a system using parts from Ontario Beer Kegs which might have some manual temperature control (a more standard homebrew setup) or are you set on automation?
I'm realizing there's a lot to consider. Budget is around $5K. Interested in small batch brewing - 20L - and then direct to cylinder or bottle.

Not in a hurry to spend the money - more interested in minimizing set-up time and clean-up. A system that looks nice, and doesn't have a big footprint, could co-exist in my living room (saving me from having to brew at someone else's place with a basement or garage).

I'll take you up on the offer to join you for a brew. Need to know the equipment side a lot more, and have realized there are far more options than I imagined.

hank you guys all for your thoughtful and helpful advice.

JasonTremblay
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:18 am

Post by JasonTremblay »

ercousin wrote:If you are going to invest big time into homebrewing be sure not to skimp on fermentation temperature control and yeast management. Far too often do I see people with fancy 3 vessel systems fermenting their beer at ambient temperatures....
^^^^ This

The stuff that happens in the brewhouse is, undoubtedly, important ...

I've never drain poured a saison because it finished it at 1.010 instead of 1.007. Or because it started at 1.055 instead of 1.058. But most of the absurdly bad beers I've had can trace their faults to fermentation (and post-fermentation oxidation) -- infections, fermenting too warm (or too cold), under-pitched yeast, and so on.

For 20L batches, I think it's tough to beat a soda keg with a shortened dip tube as a fermenter (the yeast cake drops below the dip tube). If you want to ferment warm, you toss it in a 5 gallon bucket with water an an aquarium heater. You can cold crash it in your beer fridge. You can transfer to a second keg with CO2 (no oxidation). You can dry hop in the keg. You can make a lager with a kegerator and a Ranco temp controller. And kegs, ulike carboys, won't shatter.

When it comes to the brewhouse?

Mash tun
I think it's tough to beat a picnic cooler mash tun. Even temperature for the mash. Cheap. Just get a false bottom and skip the tube-shaped strainer.

HLT
Picnic cooler

Kettle
Blichmann makes great kettles, but I hate the hop strainer with a white hot passion -- the old v-shaped one was better. You can definitely go cheaper, but make absolutely certain you can attach .5" hard plumbing to it.

Burner
Again, Blichmann has a great burner. But, for a 20L batch, the cheap ones for turkey frying are fine.

Chiller
Shirron plate chiller -- cheap, works well for smaller batches. Avoid the Blichmann -- in this case, it has nothing to offer. If you want to go big, Duda Diesel makes good ones. Requires a pump. Immersion chillers can work, but they have to be BIG (something like 50' for a 20L brew to be efficient).

Pump
March 815. Order the upgraded impeller from the States -- it'll work MUCH better. The stock impeller is designed for viscous liquids, not wort. Lots of info on the intertubes about this. Ball valve on the outlet so you can control the speed of water and wort.

Plumbing
Don't use vinyl, use silicone -- chemical and heat safe. Quick connects on everything -- kettle, hoses, chiller, HLT, mash tun. Big time saver over using nipples or screwing everything in.

Add to the setup as needed. With the pump and quick connects in place, you can add a recirc system to manipulate your mash temp (moving the wort through an immersion chiller in your kettle works well). Then you can add a full RIMS setup. Brewstand if you have space. More burners. Mill. Etc. etc.. But, seriously, invest more heavily on the fermentation side of things.

IME, the turnkey setups are ... kinda' fussy and don't always make better beer. Any time savings you get over doing things manually are often eaten up on that one brew day from hell when they screw up. Yeah, I know ... "But ... beer porn! I've seen the magazine writeups!"

Good luck!
Jason

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