Toronto Festival of Beer at Fort York

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 9:00 am

This year's Toronto Fesival of Beer is to be held August 8, 9, 10. It opens on Friday the 8th at 2:00 p.m. The festival will remain open until 10:00pm on the Friday night only.

Uncle Bobby · Post by **Uncle Bobby** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:14 pm

Thanks for the notification, PR.

I have always enjoyed this festival. However a few issues crop up from year to year. Hopefully the organizers will poke around this string and take some of our suggestions to heart. Particularly as the festival is still four months away. And mine is the POV of a punter. Perhaps some of the exhibitors would also like to make some observations -- when I am infrequently privy to conversations with Ontario brewers, they always seem to enumerate some issues where the Toronto festival does not compare favourably with other festivals, namely Montréal and Buffalo. (Let's hope the latter is a go for this year.)

First of all, congratulations on always organizing such wonderful weather.

Are you going to have the same courteous security as in previous years? Note -- it is best not to treat adults as though they were frat boys lined up outside the Brunny. Ask the Montréal people how they manage to keep order with a couple of cute chicks in flowered dresses with walkie-talkies.

If you are going to restrict under-19's from the festival, post it on all your publicity material. Last year two friends were turned away at the gate with their child by one of the sweet-natured security guards (see above). The guard told them that they could not bring their kid inside, and that they "..should've looked at the website..." No mention of refunds for their pre-purchased tickets. It was awkward for everyone, but especially for a very nice mummy and daddy who just wanted a couple of pops before things got too noisy for their kid.

I am not going to moan about the price of entry, or about this three and four tickets per 4 ounce beer business.

Any chance of working around some provincial regulations preventing you from bringing in beer not normally sold in the province?

Why do the number of toilets always seem so insufficient? What can you do to stop the pee-soaked mud from washing over the edge of my Teva's and onto my feet?

Fresh water would be nice, and not just a garden hose dropped into the pee-soaked mud. Drinking water might also help to mitigate your liabilities in case anyone came down with heat stroke.

Does the stage area have to be so big and the bands so loud? It's disorienting and annoying, especially in the heat of the afternoon. I recognize that you are now running an event geared more for the Madison crowd. But Celtic and blues together again? At that volume?

And the guy who always does the Bavarian act and drink the beer upside-down, can he not find a new act? Lion-tamer? Fire-eater?

Gimme a minute 'cause I'm in a cranky mood/ I'll think of more.

Jon Walker · Post by **Jon Walker** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:53 pm

The Toronto Beer Fest is one of the lamest I've ever been to. It's aimed squarely at the binge drinker who's idea of a good time is to get hammered on Macro brewery lager (taste doesn't matter) and black out on a strangers front yard (assuming of course they don't attempt to drive home). It's a WWF/Monster Truck rally of a beer fest...nothing subtle or refined about it. It's an overpriced, poorly organized frat party which is why the security are as loutish and heavy handed as they've been in year's past. I for one will not be going unless some very major changed are implimented.

The Buffalo fest in 2001 was awesome by contrast. Great selection of top quality beers, good food on hand, beautiful outdoor summer venue smartly laid out with plenty of room, water handed out for free, NO sample tickets needed beyond the admission price, bands and music a reasonable distance away from the sampling area so you could actually hear conversations and TALK to your fellow beer lovers, a fun but not out of control level of behaviour by those in attendence, no MACRO breweries invited...and on and on...

But ultimately I don't think the Toronto Beer Fest is a true beer festival. I think it's a shallow marketing ploy for the bigger brewers and a means of making money. When, more like IF, it changes I'll go back.

Uncle Bobby · Post by **Uncle Bobby** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 5:58 pm

I agree, Jon, generally speaking. the festival is not for the purist, not anymore and probably never was anyways. Cass highlights a number of issues in his review of previous festivals elsewhere on this site.

The Toronto beer festival is successful in a couple of regards. For the brewers it promotes their beer to a new, and broader, market. People get to try it without being married to a whole case. And we do want to see these guys succeed. I would be interested to know if they see any rises in sales after these festivals, but that would be proprietary info.(!!)

I also go because it's a day in the sun with my chums. And it's a largely homogenous crowd, and I fit into the event's demographic. I don't normally seek out people exactly like me, but it can be fun. (Have you ever noticed how many guys there are: in their thirties; in logoed t-shirts and cotton shorts; sporting foam rubber sandals; a beer in both hands and looking so damned pleased with themselves? I'm one of them.) Just hangin' out and meeting friends, old and new. Women, too. Right on, right arm! Party on, Wayne! Etc.

I think it's fun. But, you're right, other festivals are much better for actually tasting the beer. However there are some basic elements of dignity which I am less willing to forego as the years go on. Being spoken down to is one. Trodding is piss another. Clean, cool, sanitary drinking water is yet another. In fact the last one is an issue of my health and welfare, and the organizers seem oblivious.

Jon, I hope you come anyways, and just hang out, and meet some of the brewers.

-Uncle Bobby

Publican · Post by **Publican** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:32 pm

Anyone wanting to go to a better beer festival(I.M.H.O.) and dosen't want to travel to Montreal, I suggest the St.Lawrence beer festival just north of St. Lawrence market. It is usually held on the Father's Day weekend and only micros attend. On the issue of water, there is no restrictions, unlike the Fort York festival where my bottle was confiscated. I haven't been to the Montreal festival since they moved from the Old Port to Windsor Station but I remember that it was worth the trip down the 401.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:35 pm

A point of vue from the "other side of the booth".
1. The sample size is governed by the LCBO Special Occasion Permit that covers the show. The idea is that this is a "tasting" and not a "drinking" event. In theory anyway.
2. This year, a new 8oz "mini" pint shaped glass is being used. I charge a reasonable amount for my samples. I do not want to gouge anyone.
3. Brewers pay $1300.00 for the booth. Out-of-towners like me have to factor in 3 nights lodging and meals,transportation costs, plus the 17% LCBO levy and the cost of the beer. I figure it can cost $4000.00 if the cost of the beer is included. (That's roughly equivalent to the profit on 80 kegs of beer!) The show keeps 20% of the beer ticket value (so if we gather $1000.00 worth of tickets, we keep $800.00). I don't approach any beer fest with a profit in mind. It is a promotional activity. However we simply could not do the shows if we did not recoup some of the costs through beer ticket sales.
4. Beer louts are an unfortunate part of any event like this. Too bad they make up such a large part of the crowd. We are really there to connect with the true beer lovers, but we have to wade through the many to find the few. The louts are the reason for the strong arm security too. Every year, at the end of each night, we have to fend off would be looters and brawlers. We are glad to have the security there sometimes!
5. The Mondiale in Montreal is a good time. But last years show lost a ton of money. The participating breweries were told that they would not receive any proceeds from the beer tickets turned in. Thats almost bearable for a Quebec brewer, but for an out-of-province, or U.S. based company, that means a huge hit in the pocket.
I hope that this years festival is an enjoyable, lout free event where true beer lovers can connect and sample. Its really up to those who attend to make it that way by behaving.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PRMason on 2003-04-15 19:36 ]</font>

j@beaus · Post by **j@beaus** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 9:41 pm

Maybe if you guys just look at it as an outdoor concert festival that has good beer available instead of just foamy over priced Canadian?

If you really want to experience great beer in this city I think the best place to go is the beer dinners that are posted here. I was taking to Riverside on Queen St. and they have one in the near future (no it's not our beer). These dinners are usually a great bargin for the quality of food and drink you get.

Jon Walker · Post by **Jon Walker** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 7:52 am

Just to clarify...

I don't doubt small brewers like Perry have to work hard to break even at events like this. It's always sad to see people gathered around the booths of large breweries whose products are no mystery to anybody. Would it be easier if the "selection" available didn't include multiple Labatts and Molsons booths and non-beer items like Mike's Hard Lemonade?

I also get that for a lot of people it's just a summer party in a big venue at which to get hammered. Good for them but it's just not my thing. I'm no prude, I like a good summer bender every once in a while, but for a beer festival I'd prefer it to look and operate a lot more like the Buffalo fest than how it is now. Fingers crossed the Buffalo event returns this year with the cooperation of the city permit department (!) and then those of you who haven't been can go and see what I mean.

But then again if things are ever going to shift in this province I guess events like this have to cater to the lager swilling masses. Hopefully the smaller breweries can successfully turn a few heads and avoid looters (pathetic). It's just not my cup of tea...

See you in Buffalo, Montreal and the St.Lawrence Market this summer instead!

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 9:14 am

Speaking of the St-Lawrence Market... the show will take place on Father's Day weekend. This show is good for me because it attracts a lot of "newbies", people who don't normally go to beer shows. The reason... the location and FREE ADMISSION. Many people first show up to do their regular weekend thing at the Market, not even aware of the show. Because it is free to enter, they naturally come by for a sample and a chat. I also get to see the beer writers. Its great to talk to them in a place with a decent decibel level. I know these shows don't have many of the smaller brewers. There are less than 20 breweries invited due to space limitations and those who attended the previous year get first dibs. So you'll see a Major or two, along with some regionals. But I'll be there, I believe Black Oak will be too , along with Church-Key. Please come out and sample with us and have a decent chat. BTW the ribs served at the cook-off are excellent, if a little messy.

Uncle Bobby · Post by **Uncle Bobby** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:09 pm

Auburn, PR, Jon, Thanks for all your input.

Although I was not explicit, I hope you realize that I and everyone in my acquaintance recognize that the shortcomings of the festival do not reflect on the brewers. We see you guys working hard in the heat with a coat-hanger smiles stuck on your faces for the whole weekend answering the same inane questions over and over again.

I do however have some issues with the organizers which I have tred to itemize above. Things have expanded rapidly in the last few years, and one can see where they have tried to adjust (eg. an improved, but still not ideal, toilet situation). The mini-pint glasses sound cool.

Personally I have always had fun, a lot of fun, but that could change. And as for the security, "please" and "thank you" would represent an improvement.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:22 pm

Although all of the criticisms of the Toronto Beer Fest are legitimate, we have been there for the past 4 years and still find it a worthwhile event in that it gives us exposure to thousands of potential customers. With the ticket prices we charge for our specialty products (up to 6 tickets for 4oz.), we're not attracting the binge drinker. In fact, a lot of the sales gains we've made with brands such as Duvel and Chimay as well as with lambic fruit beers have been because of this festival. I can tell you it's a treat to pour a Mort Subite Framboise for someone who has never tried a Belgian fruit beer and to see their reactions....we've made lambic lovers out of hundreds of neophytes who visited our booth. This year we're going to get even more adventurous and feature a decent cross section of our consignment products in the booth in addition to our LCBO General List beers so you'll be able to sample lambics, Trappists, Abbey Ales and others...those twits hanging out at the Mike's or Rickards booths don't know what they're missing....

Josh Oakes · Post by **Josh Oakes** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 3:44 pm

Yes, but how many of us know what we're missing by not visiting the Mike's booth? I mean, I've never had any of their stuff - I could be missing out on a world classic alcopop.

And let's be honest here - this Rickard's stuff isn't all that easy to find. I drink at the Granite, the Judge and Smokeless and I've never once seen Rickard's, so this fest is a great opportunity for me to try hard-to-find stuff like this.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:14 pm

I can always find the Rickards booth, especially at the Ottawa show. They are always RIGHT BESIDE MY BOOTH. I truly love brainless dance music played at 100 decibels so that the "hired for the show know nothing about beer" babes can jiggle for the crowd (okay, I like that last part). I showed my appreciation two years ago by filling every crevice in their booth( there were holes in the back and side) with peanuts and peanut shells, graciously donated by Mr. Peanut him(her?)self. Apparently they were undeterred by the squirrel and chipmunk invasion they later received and were back beside my booth last year.
Beer festivals should be for everyone, and I think that all breweries should be encouraged to attend. Again, its up to the drinking public to show that they are interested in what we have versus the Big Guys. If the Labatt/Oland/Keiths or Molson booths draw few patrons, then they will decide not to attend on their own.
I don't think ANY alcopops, coolers, spirits, wines or other alcoholic beverages should be allowed to participate though. And they should have a water sponsor.

cman · Post by **cman** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 1:31 pm

Hey don't knock the Mike's booth at the festival. If it wasn't there I might be minus my DD for the trip home. If the weather is hot (it often is for this one in Aug) I think there is a greater tendency for overconsumption ahich can lead to the roudies acting up. You might try the beer festival in Guelph in September.

PRMason · Post by **PRMason** » Sat May 10, 2003 12:48 pm

For those of you who are brave enough to go to the Toronto Festival of Beer at Fort York this year, I may have a little something special there to thank you. Hmm, 8% alc, Imperial IPA, Centennial hops...ON CASK ONLY. A very, very limited amount of this beer (Major Misconduct) should be available by the time of the show. We will only be making a firkin or two of it every once in a while. If all goes well, we should have it at the show!)along with Sgt. Major IPA, Session, Corporal Punishment, and maybe Black Irish too!