OCB Week 2014 - June 13-24

[Bobsy]

Over the last number of years, we have focused on improving access and structural changes at the Beer Store because government has ruled out broader changes.
We are leaving it up to voters and government to decide on any other fundamental changes to the retail systems, such as private liquor stores, more agency stores, grocery and corner store sales, etc.

I find it disappointing that the OCB would not take a stronger stance on shaking up the retail system. Even if the government has ruled out change it shouldn't rob the OCB of its voice to say what would be best for its members and Ontarians. Change doesn't happen by not talking about it...

[Cass]

This is a non-stance and frankly a cop-out. Seems pretty clear that the OCB has acknowledged here that their mission is to work within the status quo rather than fight for what's right for the industry & consumers.

[Kel Varnsen]

When your trade organization represents only 40 out of ~130 open breweries in the province you would think you would recognize something is wrong. I never hear of them advocating for change....

I always wondered about the OCB in this regard. How can you be relevant if there are a ton of brewers in the province that aren't members (the majority in fact)? This includes a bunch of brewers that are doing really interesting things and getting public interest. It seems funny when you compare it to say Vermont, where it seems every brewery/brewpub is represented. I mean just looking at the Ottawa area (as I think I mentioned) it only shows Big Rig and Kitchsippi. Which means they aren't showing Broadhead, BTP, Ashton, Cassel, 3 Brewers and Covered Bridge. Not to mention Mill Street and Clocktower are OCB members but they don't show up on the map for the capital region.

Just from a marketing standpoint this makes no sense. I mean if you want to promote brewing in Ontario and the fact that there a a ton of different breweries here, you would think you would want that map they have to list as many as possible. Again comparing to Vermont, when you look at their brewers association map, I can use that for trip planning. If someone from say Vermont wanted to visit Ottawa, they would look at the OCB map and it would look pretty barren.

[Craig]

This is a non-stance and frankly a cop-out. Seems pretty clear that the OCB has acknowledged here that their mission is to work within the status quo rather than fight for what's right for the industry & consumers.

Well, yeah. The OCB are hitting 30% year-over-year growth in the LCBO. They're a trade association after all, and I think they think they're doing something that is working by partnering so strongly with the LCBO and pushing for change with their competition in TBS.

I suppose if the LCBO made a switch and started picking up more Ontario brews from non-OCB members, they might change their tune, but that relationship seems like a pretty comfortable one at the moment.

[Cass]

Only in Ontario would an industry trade association not only be unable to attract the majority of its industry, but also support an archaic system which benefits competitors that aren't actually in their membership.

[Craig]

Only in Ontario would an industry trade association not only be unable to attract the majority of its industry, but also support an archaic system which benefits competitors that aren't actually in their membership.

There's nothing about being a trade association that means you have to be representative of an entire industry.

I think they look at the current setup and think that the LCBO is actually benefiting them. They're getting great advertising in stores, good shelf placement and pretty good listing opportunities. I think they want to be the main body to supply craft beer into the LCBO and use that as their avenue for growth. A strategy that seems to be working well for them, so far.

Then they see the other guys in TBS and don't like how that works. So they're pushing for change there, whether it's more access for them or an overhaul of the system.

[Bobsy]

I think they look at the current setup and think that the LCBO is actually benefiting them. They're getting great advertising in stores, good shelf placement and pretty good listing opportunities. I think they want to be the main body to supply craft beer into the LCBO and use that as their avenue for growth. A strategy that seems to be working well for them, so far.

It's an interesting system when you look at it. Last summer the provincial government extended $2.4M to the OCB over two years. The OCB focuses it's efforts on the provincial liquor store, and stays quiet on the issue of remodelling the retail distribution system. Make of it what you will, but I doubt the OCB wants to bite the hand that feeds it.

I also wonder why the OCB (which I assume is a non-closed organization), represents less than half of all Ontario breweries. The upfront benefit of promotion and improved listing chances seems like a significant carrot, so what gives?

[Kel Varnsen]

There's nothing about being a trade association that means you have to be representative of an entire industry.

I think they look at the current setup and think that the LCBO is actually benefiting them. They're getting great advertising in stores, good shelf placement and pretty good listing opportunities. I think they want to be the main body to supply craft beer into the LCBO and use that as their avenue for growth. A strategy that seems to be working well for them, so far.

Then they see the other guys in TBS and don't like how that works. So they're pushing for change there, whether it's more access for them or an overhaul of the system.

I wonder how big the difference between members and non-members has to get before the organization loses all relevance.

I also wonder how big the non-member group has to get before they get tired of the minority group, that doesn't represent them (or even their interests), getting all this money and other benefits. I mean how long before there is a completely separate Ontario Brewers Guild or something?

[Craig]

To be honest with you, the OCB hasn't been relevant for me personally for a couple of years now. But I'm not the average LCBO shopper they're trying to lure into picking up a craft variety pack instead of my usual sixer of Keiths.

[FEUO]

Only in Ontario would an industry trade association not only be unable to attract the majority of its industry, but also support an archaic system which benefits competitors that aren't actually in their membership.

There's nothing about being a trade association that means you have to be representative of an entire industry.

I think they look at the current setup and think that the LCBO is actually benefiting them. They're getting great advertising in stores, good shelf placement and pretty good listing opportunities. I think they want to be the main body to supply craft beer into the LCBO and use that as their avenue for growth. A strategy that seems to be working well for them, so far.

Then they see the other guys in TBS and don't like how that works. So they're pushing for change there, whether it's more access for them or an overhaul of the system.

If the OCB isn't going to step up and be the representative or collective voice for the industry then what is the point of their existence?
As the OCB means very little to me, I am far more familiar with the Michigan Brewers Guild. Not only do they put on awesome festivals with upwards of a 100 MI breweries at any one event, but they also work on changing the system and being a collective voice for craft brewers big and small.
We need massive change in Ontario. The OCB is NOT getting it done.
They don't seem equipped, they don't have the membership, and they don't have the vision.

[Kel Varnsen]

To be honest with you, the OCB hasn't been relevant for me personally for a couple of years now. But I'm not the average LCBO shopper they're trying to lure into picking up a craft variety pack instead of my usual sixer of Keiths.

But even for that beer drinker they are severely lacking. I use Ottawa as an example because that is where I live, but say I am a Keiths drinker in Ottawa, and I keep hearing about how local beer is better. I go to the OCB website to find out what beer might be made near me. Unfortunately most of the breweries in Ottawa aren't even mentioned on the OCB website.

Not to mention their website design is really bad.

[Rob Creighton]

Only in Ontario would an industry trade association not only be unable to attract the majority of its industry, but also support an archaic system which benefits competitors that aren't actually in their membership.

What he said. It is the same province where we have to hold our nose to vote yet we make a collective non-decision and put in a majority liberal gov to screw us some more. (I feel vomit in my throat)

[atomeyes]

Only in Ontario would an industry trade association not only be unable to attract the majority of its industry, but also support an archaic system which benefits competitors that aren't actually in their membership.

What he said. It is the same province where we have to hold our nose to vote yet we make a collective non-decision and put in a majority liberal gov to screw us some more. (I feel vomit in my throat)

amen. this city and province makes me sick. we want change, but we don't want to do anything to get change. very frustrating.

Anyways, back to OCB:
when your MO is to get a craft beer 6-pack into the LCBO and that's about it? you have zero relevance.
when there are membership dues and it gets you nothing? zero relevance.
when there apparently are never elections to bring in new voices? zero relevance.

[Craig]

To be honest with you, the OCB hasn't been relevant for me personally for a couple of years now. But I'm not the average LCBO shopper they're trying to lure into picking up a craft variety pack instead of my usual sixer of Keiths.

But even for that beer drinker they are severely lacking. I use Ottawa as an example because that is where I live, but say I am a Keiths drinker in Ottawa, and I keep hearing about how local beer is better. I go to the OCB website to find out what beer might be made near me. Unfortunately most of the breweries in Ottawa aren't even mentioned on the OCB website.

Not to mention their website design is really bad.

They're not the Ontario Craft Drinkers association. It's not their job to promote local Ottawa breweries to you.

It really would be pretty neat if we had an inclusive brewers guild that did that sort of thing though.

[Kel Varnsen]

They're not the Ontario Craft Drinkers association. It's not their job to promote local Ottawa breweries to you.

It really would be pretty neat if we had an inclusive brewers guild that did that sort of thing though.

But even if they don't include every brewer in the province, they do a pretty bad job of promoting their actual members. I mean Mill Street has an Ottawa brew pub, where they actually brew beer (not just a location that gets beer from Toronto). And you would have to assume that Mill Street is probably one of the OCB's biggest contributors. But I can't find a single reference to the Mill Street Ottawa Brew pub. And that is just one example of my issues with the OCB and their site.