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The conundrum of opening a brewpub in Toronto

Discuss beer or anything else that comes to mind in here.

Moderators: Craig, Cass

User avatar
groulxsome
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:24 pm

Post by groulxsome »

A couple things from my perspective. I’ve been hesitant to weigh in because I am mostly involved in the brewing side of the business and not as much involved with the permits and regulations. What I say here is not a representation of our legal counsel’s opinions, they are my own.

Basically, I’d like to run down the levels of regulation from top to bottom to clarify our situation as best I understand it. Again, legal counsel might see it otherwise.

First, the federal government only cares about excise tax, but they are also the one that actually permits you to manufacture beverage alcohol. They give you an “Excise Licence.” They are also the only ones that actually inspect your setup. Everything has to be in place (no tanks in shipping or not fully installed), but they really only care about volumes. It’s a hold up, but they give you a general excise licence to brew. No size requirement, but everything gets rounded to the nearest hl at the end of the month, so for us that puts a lot of our volume within rounding.
Second, provincially the AGCO gives you a licence to sell the things you brew. Most breweries in Ontario operate under a “Manufacture’s Licence” which allows for sales through the LCBO, a bottle shop, off-site sales (to, like, other bars), and freedom on alcohol percentage. The AGCO also offers a “Wine and Brew Pub Endorsement,” which is quite different from the manufactures license. It states:
6. Wine and Brew Pub Endorsement
The holder of a brew or wine pub endorsement may sell and serve beer or wine that is manufactured on the premise by the licensee. The licensee must own and operate both the pub and the manufacturing facilities, the beer or wine must be sold and consumed only in the licensed area and must be manufactured in accordance with standards established under the Food and Drugs Act (Canada).
The licensee may contract out the manufacture of the beer or wine but the following must be observed:
i. The contractor may only be paid for labour costs;
ii. Payment for the contractor's service may not be based on quantity (bottles, batch, etc);
iii. The licensee is responsible for the entire manufacturing process, including spoilage;
iv. The beer or wine must be manufactured only on the licensed premises to which the brew or wine pub endorsement applies.
A notice must be posted in a conspicuous place on the licensed premises indicating the percentage of alcohol content of the beer or wine.

Brew Pub

Beer manufactured by the holder of a brew pub endorsement shall only be sold, served and consumed in the licensed premises where the draught beer was manufactured and on one premises other than the premises where the beer is manufactured if:
i. the licence holder has at least a 51% interest in the business carried on at the other premises and a valid liquor sales licence or
ii. in accordance with any caterer’s endorsement attached to the licence holder’s licence.

The beer manufactured by the holder of a brew pub endorsement shall not contain more than 6.5 percent alcohol by volume.

It is the endorsement holder’s responsibility to comply with all federal requirements. For further information about this contact your nearest Regional Federal Excise Office.
In addition, the holder of a brew pub endorsement will be subject to the Beer and Wine Tax as of July 1, 2010. The Ministry of Revenue will administer the tax program
Now, the long and the short of this is that this endorsement coupled with the Canadian “Excise Licence” means you can brew on premises and sell (only) on premises.

Third, there is the question about zoning in the city of Toronto. There isn’t a lot to go on. The 2013 zoning by-laws are here, but don’t say much specific about brewing. There is some talk in the exceptions about “brew-on premises” but that’s a red herring, since it’s referring to places where people brew (like homebrew) for take home consumption. It’s not for commercial sale of beverage alcohol.

So we’re left with the question, is brewing a manufacturing use or not? What counts as manufacturing? Let’s look at the definitions:
(460) Manufacturing Use
means the use of premises for fabricating, processing, assembling, packaging, producing or making goods or commodities, and it includes repair of such goods or commodities.
But, under the definitions, an eating establishment is:
(225) Eating Establishment
means premises where food or beverages are prepared and offered for sale to patrons for immediate consumption on the premises while they are seated, and which may include an incidental take-out service
Now, “beverages are prepared” for “immediate consumption” is up for debate. Clearly “Eating Establishment” blocks anyone like Bellwoods or Left Field who have a bottle shop and a separate pub. They are primarily a place where “goods or commodities” are “produced” for offsite sale. We do not. We operate under a brewpub endorsement which means all of our products are for “immediate consumption on the premises while they are seated.” I’m sure there are ramen restaurants in town that deal with larger volumes of liquid than we do.

Does an East End brewery have a bottle shop? Do they brew over 6.5%? I dunno. Does anyone without special zoning variance do so? No idea.

For us, we are working on getting zoning variance in the understanding that to apply for the AGCO’s “Manufacture’s Licence” we must be zoned for manufacturing. We’d like to send kegs off site. We’d like to brew above 6.5%. And maybe have a bottle shop or offer growler fills. Using out current set of licences and endorsements, we cannot do so and I (me personally, legal counsel might say something else) believe these limitations mean we are not manufacturing. If one drop leaves the doors, you are manufacturing because it is no longer for “immediate consumption.”

Currently we are legally preparing beverage alcohol for sale under our “Wine and Brew Pub Endorsement” under the auspices of being an “Eating Establishment” where “beverages are prepared.” Nothing shifty. We are preparing for immediate consumption, not manufacturing for sale elsewhere.

I'd love to see anything else about this. Links to the documents rather than just hearsay and unnamed sources.

User avatar
jcc
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:13 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by jcc »

groulxsome wrote:I'd love to see anything else about this. Links to the documents rather than just hearsay and unnamed sources.
The AGCO doesn't care if you are zoned manufacturing, they don't care about zoning at all. Zoning is what the city cares about and the issue is there is no mechanism in the current zoning bylaws to allow brewing in a commercial zone. You can get a minor variance through the Committee of Adjustment, but that doesn't stop that hastling from zoning examiners and inspectors. If you don't apply for a building permit, you won't get caught up in the zoning nightmare that is city hall.

I've been meaning to come try your beer. Let me know when you are around and I can tell you more about our never ending experiences with this.

User avatar
Tapsucker
Seasoned Drinker
Posts: 1912
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:21 pm
Location: Toronto

Post by Tapsucker »

groulxsome wrote: And maybe have a bottle shop or offer growler fills.
You can probably argue that growler fills are "for immediate consumption" :wink:
Brands are for cattle.
Fans are cash cows.
The herd will consume until consumed.

atomeyes
Beer Superstar
Posts: 2153
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:39 pm

Post by atomeyes »

jcc wrote:
groulxsome wrote:I'd love to see anything else about this. Links to the documents rather than just hearsay and unnamed sources.
The AGCO doesn't care if you are zoned manufacturing, they don't care about zoning at all. Zoning is what the city cares about and the issue is there is no mechanism in the current zoning bylaws to allow brewing in a commercial zone. You can get a minor variance through the Committee of Adjustment, but that doesn't stop that hastling from zoning examiners and inspectors. If you don't apply for a building permit, you won't get caught up in the zoning nightmare that is city hall.
this. exactly this.
from my understanding, there is zero revelance/connect between the AGCO and the city. it's actually been a sore spot in the past, where the city and AGCO feel they're offloading responsibilities to one another.

but if someone wants to take what groulxsome posted and use that as an argument, then one can start a brewpub and brew. then one can apply for variance in zoning and open a bottle shop in 6 months. truth be told, that ain't a horrible business plan. gives you time to get things up and running.

in the end, you have the Committee of Adjustments who will make the call on zoning. i don't think you can point to precedent or your understanding of the law when it comes to determining appropriateness of zoning. nor would the city give a shit what your AGCO license is. from my understanding, they will want to see the blueprints and construction permits and that's it. they don't care if your beer is 6.6% abv. and if they do, there is nothing stopping you from appling for 1 type of AGCO license and then upgrading to manufacturing license after your zoning's approved.

remember: the CoA has the power of God herself. you can appeal their decision, but that takes time. and time is money.

The Mick
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:58 pm
Location: Ottawa

Post by The Mick »

The councillors’ motion also calls for a “Craft Brewery Culinary Trail” to be developed in Toronto and for city divisions to reduce barriers to establishing new craft brewery operations.

“There is a craft beer renaissance going on right now in this city and also across North America — I think we should be embracing it,” Layton said Friday. “We employ a lot of people in our food and beverage manufacturing sector and I think we could do a lot more. Wouldn’t the capital of Canada be a great place to be the world capital of craft beer? I certainly think so


Soooooooooooooooooooo............... I'm confused. They think Ottawa should be the craft beer capital of the world? We've got a nice little scene brewing here, but I don't think we're quite there yet. Although, I'm sure all of our brewers know the difference between our provincial and national capitals.
I don't always drink beer ... because sometimes my friends win and we have to go to macro-only establishments.

The Mick
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:58 pm
Location: Ottawa

Post by The Mick »

hmmmmm......that made more sense before the post preceeding it was removed which contained this link: http://m.torontosun.com/2015/04/10/toro ... -the-world
I don't always drink beer ... because sometimes my friends win and we have to go to macro-only establishments.

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