Ron Moir from Heritage Brewing on Rogers TV

[KeithsGuy]

Ron Moir from Heritage Brewing was on Rogers Business TV yesturday. (channel 22 in Ottawa). He was on for approximately 5-7 minutes and talked about the Craft Brewers Assoc. and its members as well as the recent announement of government spending to promote craft beer.

What was interesting to me was that the Craft Brewers Assoc. will receive a special area within all LCBO stores to promote products brewed by members of the association. This will include a special area of the store for product placement, markeitng materials, posters, etc. to help promote their offereings. This is due to roll out this summer in LCBO stores around the Toronto area and will soon make it to all locations throughout Ontario. The Beer store is still in talks with the association and he said that it's much more difficult to work out a deal with the Beer Store over LCBO but he expects something to be worked out shortly. He illuded to the possibility of a special area of the menu board in the Beer Store but the details are still unresolved at this point.

He also provided some insight into the value priced beer and how he expects it to change the market. He mentioned that since the value priced beers have been introduced, he has noticed a drop in sales moreso in lower income areas. In higher income areas the drop hasn't been quite so significant but he has noticed a difference so it is having an impact.

He added that while the costs of craft beers are more expensive, it's because of the increased people required to produce it. The large breweries can automate much of the process while the smaller ones require more hands to do the work. However, association members may be able to save a bit of money by purchasing items in bulk (bottles, labels, boxes etc.) so that would be a big help.

Good news for the crafters!

Scott

[Belgian]

There is an excellent discussion on RateBeer concerning our Micro Brew scene - not all kisses and roses but quite constructive anyway.

Just as the VQA created wine-buyer confidence by applying critical standards, so should all Ontario micro breweries in their Association be open to objective review and a shared education / potential improvement. This will sell beer by the truckloads I am willing to bet. A point-of-sale newsletter with impartial reviews of all beers would be great promotion for some products.

[KeithsGuy]

Just as the VQA created wine-buyer confidence by applying critical standards, so should all Ontario micro breweries in their Association be open to objective review and a shared education / potential improvement. This will sell beer by the truckloads I am willing to bet. A point-of-sale newsletter with impartial reviews of all beers would be great promotion for some products.

I agree and that comment was made by Ron as well. He hopes that this shared environment will encourage growth within the association and setting the standards are an important first step.

s.

[inertiaboy]

I think this is the thread on RateBeer:

http://www.ratebeer.com/Forums/Topic-34112.htm

[old faithful]

The craft brewers association and its support by Ontario is an excellent idea and I wish them well. Not every brewer is a member, I understand, but that is okay, let the industry members decide whether to team up in this way or not - there is no one model necessarily applicable to all. The analogy with the VQA is interesting. To a point it makes sense because the members of both groups operate on a craft scale. One key element of the VQA is different - that the wines be 100% Ontario-production (and vinifera too, I think). Whereas brewers traditionally (at least for a long time) source their raw materials from a wider area than the local or national territory. But the idea of supporting a smaller-scale local enterprise which produces the final product here and adopts certain quality standards is common to both. The VQA did help the wineries that are members quite a bit, I understand, and hopefully the craft beer association will do the same and even help non-members in the sense of creating a wider awareness of what good beer is.

Gary

[lister]

http://www.ratebeer.com/Forums/Topic-34112.htm

What an annoying thread to read. There are lots of great Canadian micros. Just because most don't fit within a seemingly narrow taste profile doesn't make them crap.

[tupalev]

What an annoying thread to read. There are lots of great Canadian micros. Just because most don't fit within a seemingly narrow taste profile doesn't make them crap

I agree to a point Lister. The amount of negativity from some beer folks (in this case, Josh) baffles me, but everyone has their own opinion. Painting everyone with the "crap" brush to suit your tastes is just too easy. At the same time, there is a point to be made that the overall quality of craft beer could be raised in this Country and Province, and there is a fair bit of folks making bland beer, hoping to catch the latest trend or appeal to the masses, not make challenging beers (and challenging beers are selling in the U.S. in some parts). It would be nice to see some doing that, but the point Jerc made in that thread about the fact that these micros are, for the most part, people's lives, life savings, and a way to scrape by making a living, rings true to me. It is far easier to sit back and criticize (kind of reminded be of that High Fidelity movie where John Cusak's girlfriend tells him how easy it is to criticize without ever putting anything original out there for the world to judge itself, which he does at the end) than do throw yourself in the game. However, I think this negativity is just a result of the frustration of not having good choices because of regulations and restrictions (or maybe of having seen all the beers of the world and then coming back to your limited surroundings). The folks that want over the top hoppy beers should have that choice, but right now they get 100 bland lager choices instead. I'd settle for consistently well made beer of various styles.

[Belgian]

http://www.ratebeer.com/Forums/Topic-34112.htm

What an annoying thread to read. There are lots of great Canadian micros. Just because most don't fit within a seemingly narrow taste profile doesn't make them crap.

Some views were vague but there was some informed, thoughtful discussion of the attitude to brewing & certain defects and inconsistencies in beer.

Why should a comparative analysis of micro-brewing in the USA versus here annoy anyone. If we know we've got a few stellar beers, which are better than many others. why can't we say there could be 20 or 30 stellar local beers.

Pretending there are LOTS of beers here just as good as Denisons Weiss or Wellington Stout, now that is what annoys me. A few are as good, most could be better.

[JerCraigs]

I'd settle for consistently well made beer of various styles.

If i had access to at least one well made local version of every/most beer style I'd be a happy camper. This would be the norm in Jeremyland - Vote Jeremy for Grand Poobah of the Universe!

[PRMason]

I think that the RateBeer thread ignores a salient point. Breweries, craft or otherwise, are businesses. There must be some concession to the bank managers at some point. If all craft brewers produced extreme ( by current standards) beers, they would soon be out of business. There simply are not enough "beer geeks" around to make it viable.
The beer geek community is growing and that is very encouraging. They not only provide a market for "different" beers but also encourage the timid to try something new. Should micros produce more intersting beers? In an ideal world, absolutely! But if you look at some of the more profitable micros (ie. Steamwhistle and the now Macro-owned Creemore), their beers are well made examples of macro beer. They know the secret, that is that many consumers want to drink something premium and different, but not too far outside of their comfort zone. Perhaps the answer is simple. If each micro produced one extreme beer as part of their portfolio, and used it to showcase their potential, then maybe we could have the best of both worlds-great interesting beers AND profits too!
P.S.Dn't use me as an example of how other brewers should operate.My beers are a little different but I have been in this businees for 7 years and have yet to make dollar one from my toil.

[PRMason]

The Ontario Small Brewers Association is definitely a move in theright direction. Many small voices make more noise when they speak as one. I am not 100% in favour of all their initiatives, but I applaud their hard work.
I am not a member of the OSBA. They way it is currently set up, I would pay my dues, but would not be a full-member and would not be allowed to vote on any of the initiatives. Because my beers are brewed at Church-Key, giving me a vote would be like giving Church-Key two votes( or in the case of Cool Beer 3 or 4 votes) As a contract-brewer, I am not really part of their vision. Ron Moir has also made it clear that if contract brewers are let in, he wants no part of the OSBA. I don't need the political aggro, so I will sit and watch from the sidelines for now.
The paralels with the VQA are interesting. I was working for Inniskillin back in 1989 when the VQA was about to be launched. In fact, I sat in on a meeting of the original proposed members. The smaller wineries were deeply concerned about how they would be represented in the organisation. Most believed that the bigger (in those days Hillebrand, Inniskillin and Chateau des Charmes) would get the lion's share of the benefits. I think the same concerns exist within the OSBA where you have 2 fairly large "micros" providing most of the money ( membership dues is based on production). Obviously, they want a larger return on their investment, so they are "driving the bus". This is not to say they won't be of help to the little guys, but the problems and obstacles faced by a brewery producing 1000hl a year are very different than those producing 50,000hl. Sure there is some common ground, but its still apples and oranges for the most part.

[Steve Beaumont]

As a long-time industry observer, Perry, I must disagree with you, at least in part. Steamwhistle and Creemore are certainly examples of one way in which to make a craft brewery work, but Unibroue is another. Andre Dion did not build his business by appealing to mass market tastes, he did it by challenging the public, educating them and crafting significantly out-of-the-ordinary beers that were and are good enough to change tastes. It's not the beer geek community that is driving these sales, but ordinary beer drinkers.

In the States, examples abound of breweries challenging consumers and eventually changing tastes. Sierra Nevada is perhaps the greatest example, but let us not forget Anchor, as well. (Did you know that both Liberty and Foghorn were first brewed in 1975!) Then there's Boston Beer, which has successfully used their interesting and extreme beers as p.r. vehicles -- well-received and eminently saleable p.r. vehicles, I might add -- for the brewery's Lager and, now, Light.

And the evolution continues: Victory, Stoudt, Deschutes, Kalamazoo, Rogue, Magic Hat, Dogfish... At present, I'm reading Sam Calagione's new book, "Brewing Up a Business," which, while it may not be the most compelling read, is a fascinating study of marketing more-or-less "extreme" craft-brewed beers to the modern consumer.

[inertiaboy]

As a contract-brewer, I am not really part of their vision.

That is really a shame. The idea of sharing brewery resources to facilitate the creation of smaller-batch beers that fills voids in the market is something that is very valuable to the promotion of craft beer. Without the Church-Key / Scotch Irish and Mill Street / Denisons alliances (I assume they are still working together!), we would be missing some very important beers.

Perhaps, once the OSBA has some momentum behind them, their scope of vision will increase. In the interim, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. That is, after first converting said money into these fine beers.

[GregClow]

Ron Moir has also made it clear that if contract brewers are let in, he wants no part of the OSBA.

In that case, he should withdraw from the group now, since they already have Denison's, St. Andre & Skeena as members...

[PRMason]

Stephen I do see your point, but Quebec (certainly the Montreal ara) is way ahead in terms of thier willingness to accept different flavours in their beers. Do you think St. Ambroise Pale would have survived in Ontario if it had been introduced in the mid-eighties? You just have to look at the brew-pub scene in Montreal to see that the market for extreme or individualistic beer is eons ahead of what it is in Ontario.
As for Unibroue, they had a helping hand from our Belgian friends. Unibroue did not create the market for the kind of beers it produces. The rapid influx of Belgian imports kicked that door open for them. They did introduce some very,very excellent beers with loads of character, but unabashedly in the Belgian style. The Québecois are also much more supportive of home-grown companies (esp. those owned by "Pure Laine" french Québecois) and of artisanal products in general. The Robert Charlebois connection didn't hurt either. We simply do not have that kind of ethnocentric and chauvanistic feeling towards our home-grown beers in Ontario (except for many of the Bartowellers, and yourself). Small breweries in Ontario, far from being relished for being artisanal, are often viewed with scepticism by the public at large.