beer packaging

[swall]

I wonder if beer packaging really matters anymore. As I write this I am enjoying a JR Brickman Pilsner that came in a heavy-duty 6-pack with an ISB that has three labels (back, front, neck). For sure Sleeman built his business on the clear bottle, but we all know where those sales are now. Has buck-a-beer changed the landscape so much that presentation is lost? Compare a $75 steak to a $10 one that is properly marinated and cooked. Sure, if the price were the same, the $75 steak is best, but is it worth the extra $65?

Can the consumer distinguish between an ISB bottle and say a Mill St., or Steamwistle? Didn’t Labatt use painted bottles for 50 for a while, last I saw they were back to paper labels? That probably answers my question – if MolBatt sees no value in high end presentation, then the consumer must not..

[Ale's What Cures Ya]

Beer to most people functions as nothing more than a cheap, alcohol delivery method. They could care less about what the outside looks like, as long as the inside will get them drunk.

[PRMason]

Many of the finest beers and wines in the world have the most unassuming labels and packages. When the stubby went away in 1985, the domestic beer industry went nuts over proprietary bottles. At one point, there were 22 different bottles around- for Molson, Labatt, and Carling-O'keefe alone. This caused enormous problems at the Beer Store level as all the individual bottles had to be sorted and sent back to the proper brewer. Along comes the Industry Standard Bottle (which is what the stubby was!) and voila, cost effective bottle returns for all.
I was a Beer Store Manager back then (don't hate me) and my lament was that the brewers should spend more time on what's inside the bottle and less time worrying about the package. I stand by that statement today. Sure, a beautiful package is a value adeed for some people, and it does help sell beer in some cases, but if the beer inside is no good, the package won't sell it to you again the next time around.
BTW. painted labels are generally used for the lowest grade of beer produced in the line. Witness Corona. In Mexico, this beer is the lower-class, working class beer. It sells a lot ( for next to nothing) and the painted label saves time and money during re-filling.

[lister]

I guess Mill St. and Steamwhistle are bucking that trend.

Nice looking or different packaging catches the eye immediately especially when you're looking over shelves of beer. My first and only visit so far to Premiere Gourmet comes to mind. My first pass through the aisles I was largely reaching for either labels I recognized (which were few) or interesting bottles. For my second and third pass through the aisles I looked at practically every bottle.

I think a consumer can distinguish between an ISB bottle and more unique ones like Mill St and Steamwhistle. Whether or not that gets them to buy them is another story. If I was a micro I'd try to use as unique and interesting packaging as I could afford to stand out from Molbattman and the buck-a-beer bunch.

[emjay]

brahma has a nice bottle too but it doesnt say anything about the beer. the only look that matters is the look of it in my glass

[Rob Creighton]

Many of the finest beers and wines in the world have the most unassuming labels and packages. When the stubby went away in 1985, the domestic beer industry went nuts over proprietary bottles. At one point, there were 22 different bottles around- for Molson, Labatt, and Carling-O'keefe alone. This caused enormous problems at the Beer Store level as all the individual bottles had to be sorted and sent back to the proper brewer. Along comes the Industry Standard Bottle (which is what the stubby was!) and voila, cost effective bottle returns for all.
I was a Beer Store Manager back then (don't hate me) and my lament was that the brewers should spend more time on what's inside the bottle and less time worrying about the package. I stand by that statement today. Sure, a beautiful package is a value adeed for some people, and it does help sell beer in some cases, but if the beer inside is no good, the package won't sell it to you again the next time around.
BTW. painted labels are generally used for the lowest grade of beer produced in the line. Witness Corona. In Mexico, this beer is the lower-class, working class beer. It sells a lot ( for next to nothing) and the painted label saves time and money during re-filling.

As a matter of fact Perry, Sleeman, Creemore, Mill Street and Steamwhistle have used packaging differentiation to help them stand out in the market place. Labatt and Molson paid for and of course supervised Upper Canada, Algonquin and Brick to switch over to the ISB and also to their deaths. I am assuming even our rocket scientist liberal masters could figure out that only Brick survived (with Molson's financial help) and then they had to stab them in the back to continue to survive - a good move on their part.

Mandating a package is doomed to failure. It sort of shows you're Nazi side. You telling me what's right is ... wrong, and always will fail. Have a nice day.

[PRMason]

Rob, are you calling me a Nazi? I never said in my post that I am in favour of the ISB. The point was that the package is secondary to the beer inside.

[Rob Creighton]

Sorry Perry,
I guess you can tell I like to stir the pot by over reacting. It's sort of a trademark. I agree with you that the beer should be the primary concern but I guess I don't believe the crap that is constantly fed us by TBS and the big brewers in order to control the marketplace. The arguments are always too motherhood and under scrutiny, they turn out to be nonsense. Labatt and Molson went to the ISB to keep Stroh's out of the Ontario market in the beer war in the early '90's. They had enough power over government to implement the can tax despite any form of reasonable logic that I have ever seen.

I think the point is valid that we (Ontarians) go for bullshit lines on a regular basis in an effort to feel good about ourselves but the background on it is always market manipulation, tax grabs and payoffs. The ISB is a brand killer that is poorly engineered (rewashing twist-offs is not acceptable anywhere else in the world). It allows the big brewers to use their marketing power to try to govern beer sales and trys to prevent small brewers from standing out in the marketplace (environmental tax for non-ISB bottles).

[Rob Creighton]

Besides, you're too short for a nazi!

[PRMason]

Well, Hitler was only 5' 8"...and Goebels wasn't even that tall. And Mussolini, Franco and Salazar (although not technically Nazis) were also my height!
I don't like the ISB either. We don't get those bottles washed, we buy new glass every time. The "twist-off" crown is also problematic as the threads on the bottles oftimes get chipped during crowning allowing beer to seep out and air to get in. As soon as I have exhausted my current run of packaging (3-4 months) the Sgt. Major will go into Stubbies- the real ones with pry off crowns. We are in the process of bringing Black irish Porter to TBS. It will be in stubbies from the get-go as will this years' Tsarina.

[pootz]

I wonder if beer packaging really matters anymore. As I write this I am enjoying a JR Brickman Pilsner that came in a heavy-duty 6-pack with an ISB that has three labels (back, front, neck). ..

Congrats firstly, on your good taste...Brickman Pils will stand on its own merits in the premium-craft market.

Secondly, there was chatter at Brick and other brewers I have talked to that wish they weren't using the ISB with full malted beers because of the crappy seal the cap provides....anyone with a product good enough to be concerned about oxidation has issues with the sloppy ISB twist crown seal. Another incentive for going to the new can...if the stigma is gone in the upmarket beer consumer with cans.

As far as the buck a beer phenomena, well the world has always had an endless supply of alcoholics and slobs with no taste. Personally I have not discovered a bargain macro I can take unless it's damn near frozen...the stuff is just too harsh from corn dextrin acids and no conditioning....it's over priced at a buck.

[Tapsucker]

I noticed the Heritage dark showing up in stubbies. As a person who drinks beer out of a glass, stubbies are just fine with me. I also prefer the pry-off for the reasons mentioned.

However, the stubbies are non-refundable at the moment, so that's a downside.

I can appreciate a good package design, but it is unlikely to sway my purchase as much as the contents.
But...practical package design is very desirable. It is a good customer experience to have well preserved beer (dark glass, pry-off) and a sturdy box that can make it home (Steam Whistle gets points). As much as I love Tankhouse, Mill Street's sixpack carrier is a nuisance.

I have also noticed Kawartha's boxes fall apart and I don't really buy their product much because I have had too many skunky batches; I don't know what's going wrong in their production or delivery, but it sucks.

Finally, I will continue to complain about the LCBO's staff literacy problem any time I can. It says KEEP REFRIGERATED! on the box, follow the instructions when mechanising you idiots!
Short of self-refrigerated packaging, no cute bottle will fix that problem.

[Dokta Owange]

BTW. painted labels are generally used for the lowest grade of beer produced in the line. Witness Corona. In Mexico, this beer is the lower-class, working class beer. It sells a lot ( for next to nothing) and the painted label saves time and money during re-filling.

I agree in that it is what's inside the bottle that counts....I agree with the Painted labels quote listed above in regards to Corona....And yes, the operative words here are "generally used for the lowest grade"...because there are major exceptions here - that being Rogue, and Stone.

[Rob Creighton]

BTW. painted labels are generally used for the lowest grade of beer produced in the line. Witness Corona. In Mexico, this beer is the lower-class, working class beer. It sells a lot ( for next to nothing) and the painted label saves time and money during re-filling.

I agree in that it is what's inside the bottle that counts....I agree with the Painted labels quote listed above in regards to Corona....And yes, the operative words here are "generally used for the lowest grade"...because there are major exceptions here - that being Rogue, and Stone.

While these comments are in essence true, the style of contents have very little to do with the style of packaging. Breweries throughout the Carribean, Central America and South America have long used the ceramic label and plastic cases because they have long been third world countries. They couldn't afford incredibly wasteful one way boxes and labels.

I believe the styles are more reflective of environmental and historical issues. At one time the ambers and darks of Mexico were also in ceramic painted bottles. By shipping the Corona bottle to the US and Canada, the ceramic label actually becomes more expensive than a paper label but we know that marketing rules here.

For a small brewery, bottles already decorated are a lot easier to handle (labeling is a pain in the ass) and simple 2 or 3 colour designs can be very effective. Mill St. and Steamwhistle graphics stand out. It never suggests a cheaper product.

Cans have 360 degree graphics that are much better than applied labels but cans have carried a price/image problem for a long time. It's all perception.

[Asst. Grain Shoveller]

All I can say from a production point of view:
Bottling is a pain in the ass
The price point of the ISB is a significant factor in getting a bottle to market. (Also includes standard boxes, sorting fees, labels etc.)
However in the small world of local micro's there are the occasional triumphs: ie my wrap around labels are almost going on straight.
The next person that complains about crooked labels is welcome to buy me a new labeller.

Anyways drinking beer is a very expensive and inefficient way to get drunk. Beer should deliver flavour and taste.
Besides it should be consumed from a glass (AND NEVER WITH A STRAW)

Just my two cents

cheers
Ken