Beer from a U.S. day trip

Jon Walker · Post by **Jon Walker** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:59 pm

I recently dodged a bullet when returning to Canada via the Lynden Washington border crossing in B.C. I'm working in Vancouver right now and happened to be out in Langley yesterday. Being so close to the U.S. border I decided to pop over and pick up some beer. I purchased a 6 of Stone IPA, 6 Deschutes IPA and 12 LaConner IPA...total, $34.21 U.S. When I crossed back at the Canadian border I was asked to pull over to pay duty...fine. Once inside they informed me that the applicable duty charged for a less than 48 hour trip was roughly equivalent to 85% of the purchase price...in other words they wanted another $32.64 Canadian in duty and taxes. Fortunately a little charm and playing dumb resulting in them letting me go without paying but...I thought the duty was way less than that?

According to this http://www.bartowel.com/premier.phtml duty for a day trip is much less than 85%. Granted this guide is old and specific to Ontario but...I thought border duties were a federal matter (therefore uniform across the country)? Any input from those of you who've done cross border day trip beer excursions recently would be helpful. I was planning on heading back to buy a couple of cases to bring home to T.O. but not at those prices.

Derek · Post by **Derek** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:04 pm

My inlaws are in Surrey, so I've been over to Bellingham (the bottleshoppe) a few times. Once I paid heavily... something like 65%. They said it was different depending on the province you reside in. I told them I lived in Ontario, they did a quick calc, and said it cost the same?

I felt screwed-over, but didn't want to make a scene. It would be nice to know the regulations.

Lubiere · Post by **Lubiere** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:11 am

My understanding is part of the taxes are levied by the provincial liquor boards, which the Border service collect on their behalf. I have been told horror stories about BC. Qc is similar to ON, with the exception that only 1 excedent case of 24 can be brought in with duty, before it is considered an importation (whereas in ON, the limit is 8 cases, plus duty)

northyorksammy · Post by **northyorksammy** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:07 am

the Fed Govt site CCRA says 144 bottles or equivalent and then importation
the provinces seem to differ only on age minimums

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:24 am

Jon, I remember from my early days of testing border importing that the overall % duty/tax skewed much higher with high volume and low cost of the beer.

In other words, the more expensive the beer and less volume of it (i.e. a $8 bottle of Belgian beer) will have a lower % of tax than lower cost and higher volume (i.e. a $8 six-pack).

Also, when I was researching the costs I got answers from the provincial authorities, not Customs Canada. So there are definitely provincial differences with importing.

pootz · Post by **pootz** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:45 pm

From my experience crossing in BC the provincial tax was Higher there than Alberta ( where I lived at the time) but still the fed tax is fixed and 85% of cost is pure BS.

Bottom line was you were lied to by a govt. official hoping to shake you down and preying on you being a dummy...this denotes a malicious intent inherent in customs in that port...get armed...read the law and make them run by the play book.

Sorry for the vent, but nothing POs me like intimidating threats , lies and shakedowns for 7 dollar an hr, boobs tripping on the power they get from a uniform.

grub · Post by **grub** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:53 pm

i agree that you were likely given a line of BS...i think the worst i've paid coming into ontario is around 30%.

however, when i've paid duty in liquor it was indeed approaching 100%. as an undergrad i used to grab a bottle from the duty free anytime i crossed the border in windsor, even if it was just for a couple hours. most of the time i'd get waved through with no questions. then one day the customs guy asked how much the bottle was. when i said $15, he informed me that i'd likely be paying another $14 in duty when i got inside. sure enough, taxes and duty came out to almost $14. even at about $30 the bottle was still cheaper than buying at the LCBO, and considering i only paid duty once out of about 20 trips, it balanced out to an even better deal.

i know that the LCBO taxes based on %alc, volume, and dollar value, which was why my litre of 50% vodka was hit hard, and also explains why beer is usually hit for less. maybe that's what the customs guy was thinking about.

either way, i still figure that even if i paid high duty on a small fraction of the purchases i make it still works out OK. besides, i'm willing to pay a premium for good beer from the states (especially when i see stuff like the super LCBO spring and summer releases...)

Jon Walker · Post by **Jon Walker** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:04 pm

If anyone can find a link to the relevant information on a government website I'd be appreciative. I've searched but can't find anything other than standard info on duty free limits (after 48 hours). Can't seem to find any actual scale of provincial duty rates and taxes based on quantities (alc. percentage, volume, etc...) for trips less than 48 hours.

I'd LOVE to know the proper regulations and rate scale so that I can challenge the pimply faced college kids manning the border checkpoints and pay only the duty I'm actually obligated to pay. It would also make it easier to figure out if a return trip to stock up is even budgetarily feasible.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:07 pm

There's nothing online that says the rules under 48 hours. I think you have to get on the phone and find the *right* person - probably in the BCLDB in B.C. Calling Customs Canada is useless - I did that once and they told me the tax was 100%.

Andicus · Post by **Andicus** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:15 pm

As I've previously stated, when I crossed into Quebec from New York (Same day), I had $130 US in beer, and it cost me $11.

Jon Walker · Post by **Jon Walker** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:29 pm

Andicus wrote:As I've previously stated, when I crossed into Quebec from New York (Same day), I had $130 US in beer, and it cost me $11.

I'm guessing you got off lucky...but who really knows unless we can find out the actual rates and rules that apply? It's as hard to believe the duty rate and taxes in Quebec are less than 10% when the supposed rate in B.C. is 85%. Surely there can't be that kind of discrepancy?

Andicus · Post by **Andicus** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:01 pm

Jon Walker wrote:
Andicus wrote:As I've previously stated, when I crossed into Quebec from New York (Same day), I had $130 US in beer, and it cost me $11.
I'm guessing you got off lucky...but who really knows unless we can find out the actual rates and rules that apply? It's as hard to believe the duty rate and taxes in Quebec are less than 10% when the supposed rate in B.C. is 85%. Surely there can't be that kind of discrepancy?

I agree, but the agent did enter all the stuff into his computer, and I have a printed invoice somewhere. My friend had about $50 and it cost him $4.

Al of Kingston · Post by **Al of Kingston** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:03 pm

I cross all the time and the general rule is 35%-ish on everything due to a combination of PST, GST, LCBO mark-up and excise tax.

James · Post by **James** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:28 pm

You are all wrong. For beer, customs charges are mostly based on volume, not the value you declare - hence higher percentage markups on cheap shite. The document explaining the whole thing in full detail can be found here on the Canada Border Services agency website (naturally it is not a terribly easy document to navigate to using their website):
http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cm/d2-3-6/d2-3-6-e.pdf

The taxes are virtually all provincial and Ontario struck me as the most expensive province, but I did not bother doing the full calculation for other parts of the Country, so I don't know if BC comes out worse and as I don't tend to import beer into BC, I leave checking that as an exercise for the reader.

Essentially for Ontario, assuming an 8.18 litre case (which is what customs always assume for me), you are looking at:

Customs charge = 18% of the declared value of beer + $9.21 per case

Federal duty is 31.22 cents per litre (for beer). Ontario provincial liquor markup is 67.6 cents per litre. GST (6%) is taken on declared value + duty. PST (12%) is taken on declared value + duty + provincial liquor markup.

Consequently, if you could get a free case of beer and prove to the customs people it was free, you would still pay $9.21 in customs tax.

pootz · Post by **pootz** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:38 pm

Jon....for a start take that "ream me" sign off your back when you pass customs

Sorry