Beer and the Election

[Cass]

I haven't heard much chatter with the provincial election as it relates to beer. However, I noticed yesterday the Liberals sent out a press release re-capping Tory's thoughts on beer & wine in the corner stores. Not sure what prompted this?

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/arch ... c4010.html

I have e-mailed the contact from the Liberal party to ask for their stance on the issue. Certainly Tory's looks like nothing good for beer fans.

Anyone heard anything?

[Cass]

Here's a couple of links - it would seem like Tory does want to do some test stores of beer and wine!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ontariovotes20 ... 70924.html

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... n2007/home

[PRMason]

Well, Dalton MCGuilty spent mega bucks on a impartial study that recommended privatizing the system and the government promptly disagreed and ignored it.
Don't expect this to be an issue at all this time around.

[JerCraigs]

Last I checked, part of the Green party platform included support for local agriculture, specifically mentioning local beer and wine. (Admittedly, that was a long time ago that I looked into it.)

[GregClow]

I think the idea of selling craft beer in corner stores is ridiculous.

Whether we like it or not, most people are still macro beer drinkers, and unless they want to grab something quickly, they'll be much more likely to continue going to the Beer Store to get their Blue or Coors Light or Lakeport rather than trying something new.

Not to mention that Labatt, Molson and Sleeman would likely raise a huge stink about this if it actually went through and was craft beer only. And if they were allowed to get in on the action as well, how many corner stores do you think would bother stocking craft beers if they could sell stuff from the big boys?

If Tory was serious about this, he'd put forward the idea of opening specialty stores focussing on craft beer and VQA wine exclusively. Hell, he could even let the LCBO run 'em as an off-shoot chain or something in order to keep the unions happy. But I'm not holding my breath.

He did, however, say one thing that I agree with wholeheartedly:

"These big, foreign-owned breweries control the Brewer's Retail and I think we have to fix that. They (local brewers) create jobs and they're entrepreneurs in Ontario," Tory said. "I think, similarly, the wineries in Ontario are getting a bit of a raw deal when it comes to shelf space in the LCBO."

[detritus]

Not to mention that Labatt, Molson and Sleeman would likely raise a huge stink about this if it actually went through and was craft beer only. And if they were allowed to get in on the action as well, how many corner stores do you think would bother stocking craft beers if they could sell stuff from the big boys?

It seems to work in Quebec. At least in Montreal, there are no small number of depanneurs where one can get a decent variety of local micros.

-Josh

[Cass]

I think the idea of selling craft beer in corner stores is ridiculous.

Whether we like it or not, most people are still macro beer drinkers, and unless they want to grab something quickly, they'll be much more likely to continue going to the Beer Store to get their Blue or Coors Light or Lakeport rather than trying something new.

Not to mention that Labatt, Molson and Sleeman would likely raise a huge stink about this if it actually went through and was craft beer only. And if they were allowed to get in on the action as well, how many corner stores do you think would bother stocking craft beers if they could sell stuff from the big boys?

No offense Greg, but isn't this the kind of attitude that keeps our archaic system in place?

Our beer system is awful, plain and simple. To think that corner stores would only sell macro beers is not giving them enough credit. Open up the system, and see what happens. There's Future Shop, but there's also independent specialty computer retailers on College. There's McDonald's, but there's also great restaurants around town. There's Ikea, but there's also boutique furniture shops. You get the idea. Specialty can co-exist with big, mass-focused retail.

If corner stores were allowed to sell craft beers, I would personally open a Bar Towel convenience store in Toronto and I think I would be pretty successful. I wouldn't be the only one. The system has to change and I wish this was more of an issue, but it isn't.

[Wheatsheaf]

I think the whole idea of beer in corner stores brings the concept down to the lowest common denominator and distorts the debate. It's easy for people to say: I don't think you should be able to buy beer or wine at a 7-11. It's more difficult to think of a good reason why you shouldn't be able to walk into a Loblaws, Whole Foods, Fiesta Farms, etc. and buy (at the very least) craft beer and Ontario wines.

[JerCraigs]

Our beer system is awful, plain and simple. To think that corner stores would only sell macro beers is not giving them enough credit. Open up the system, and see what happens. There's Future Shop, but there's also independent specialty computer retailers on College. There's McDonald's, but there's also great restaurants around town. There's Ikea, but there's also boutique furniture shops. You get the idea. Specialty can co-exist with big, mass-focused retail.

If corner stores were allowed to sell craft beers, I would personally open a Bar Towel convenience store in Toronto and I think I would be pretty successful. I wouldn't be the only one. The system has to change and I wish this was more of an issue, but it isn't.

If Tory was serious about this, he'd put forward the idea of opening specialty stores focusing on craft beer and VQA wine exclusively. Hell, he could even let the LCBO run 'em as an off-shoot chain or something in order to keep the unions happy. But I'm not holding my breath.

In a way you are addressing two separate issues here really. Opening up wider access to *craft* beer, and more widely available alcohol sales in general, and measures to bolster *Ontario* beers and wines.

Being able to sell the same products as the LCBO and Beer store already carry in more places will not really help use find more craft beer. Similarly, I'm not sure that a section based solely on the criteria of being produced here does a heck of a lot to ensure that what is being produced locally is of a high caliber.

[Belgian]

I think the whole idea of beer in corner stores brings the concept down to the lowest common denominator. It's easy for people to say: I don't think you should be able to buy beer or wine at a 7-11. It's more difficult to think of a good reason why you shouldn't be able to walk into a Loblaws, Whole Foods, Fiesta Farms, etc. and buy (at the very least) craft beer and Ontario wines.

I sort of get what you mean but then, how do we answer the "why?" to your statement? What is the difference?

Lots of Quebec corner stores sell beer and it's no more a risk (eg. to minors) than are cigarettes.

Cigarettes are sold in corner stores and craft beer/wine sold at the LCBO because of tax profit motives, not any motive of real social conscience.

All this aside I really agree that craft beer and the LCBO are a poor fit compared to having regulated regional sales in places like Whole Foods. The LC want to sell too few craft products over too broad an area, at the expense of meeting local demands in every way possible.

As an Ontario-wide 'egalitarian' operation the LCBO are required to be too big & streamlined to adapt regionally. They would never start selling Sierra Nevada and Maredsous products in a single Toronto store just because people there would buy it - I think if they did everyone else would scream "unfair!!"

Let private retail handle what LCBO doesn't want to handle, or the question will remain - 'why, not Ontario?'

[JerCraigs]

From Torontoist:

John Tory wants to let corner stores sell booze. He says local brewers and vintners are getting a raw deal, and he's got a point. After all, when you go into your local corner store, think of the wealth of independent chocolatiers you have to pick from when you want a candy bar!

[pootz]

Four things that don't mix: oil and water and beer and politicians.

Politics has been the single most negative influence on beer culture and brewing art for the past 800 years....and not much has changed.

We all know what has to happen to remove the bureaucratic dike erected to stop or slow the craft beer revolution....use it as a litmus test of the quality of candidate you are confronting....either they are a laissez-faire free market capitalist or some form of oligopolist....we know where beer production distribution import and retail is concerned free market and demand economy dynamics are illusory in this jurisdiction.

Anyone who is happy with the status quo control bureaucracy, likes state and private monopolies and the collusive kleptocracies that feed from them.

Tory seems happy to leave the state run retail/import monolith intact but allowing commercial reatil s at least a small step in the right direction.

[Belgian]

About kleptocracy,

Very interesting definition of that on on Wikipedia - I was just thinking about my sister living in Mexico telling me the problem of government and general corruption is everywhere the same - you're just not going to get rid of it, and in Canada it is just more cleverly hidden and not worn on a shameless smiling face as in Cozumel. Yet Cozumel, Mexico functions really well and people all get along peacefully somehow, better than here perhaps. Her attitude is an amazing example of wise acceptance.

So for all our railing rallying and ranting, Canada is still an amazingly good 'corrupt' country to live in of all 'corrupt' places. We have to count our blessings when we 'theorize idealistic' because even if a miracle allowed certain wrongs to be righted this might give opportunity for new and unexpected wrongs to rear their greedy heads.

[shintriad]

I think the idea of selling craft beer in corner stores is ridiculous.

However, the idea of not selling craft beer in specialty stores that only sell beer is even more ridiculous.

[Rob Creighton]

Certainly Tory's looks like nothing good for beer fans.

Anyone heard anything?

Wow, how disturbingly liberal.