Simple Malt Imperial IPA - at least that's what I was told, it was an unlabeled bottle
LTM Weizenbock
Cameron's RPA
Looking for the original Bar Towel blog? You can find it at www.thebartowel.com.
We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.
Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
We have a trivia question in order to register to prevent bots. If you have any issues with answering, contact us at cass@bartowel.com for help.
Introducing Light Mode! If you would like a Bar Towel social experience that isn't the traditional blue, you can now select Light Mode. Go to the User Control Panel and then Board Preferences, and select "Day Drinking" (Light Mode) from the My Board Style drop-down menu. You can always switch back to "Night Drinking" (Dark Mode). Enjoy!
What're you drinking right now?
Interesting comments (the whole discussion, groulxsome just summed it up nicely).groulxsome wrote: To be fair, two of the most common saisons (Dupont and Hennepin) are both pretty mild in the funky farmhouse category. GLB's was closer to Hennepin and Amsterdam's was closet to Dupont, but I think Amsterdam cheated by adding wheat. Black Oak's, I'll agree, is very much a gussied up wit.
The style has certainly evolved from the original (low-alcohol) Wallonian summer brews. I've often thought that Dupont was the modern template... though now it seems that the North American brewers and the new interest in funk is beginning to redefine the style again.
I enjoyed Black Oak's throwback to the old style. Who says you can't have wheat in a saison?
-
markaberrant
- Seasoned Drinker
- Posts: 1664
- Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:28 pm
- Location: Regina, SK
^ Saison beer tyle seems very subjective, although if they don't have a good bracing snap of dryness/earthy/herbal quality I don't really have much use for them. To me the best Ontario versions were one of the less-common Beau's Saisons and one or two of the Nickel Brook ones. Accuracy, schmaccuracy! I want to drink it not write historical prose about it.
I'm just glad we HAVE them now, and more showing up all the time. And that not all of them are sticky-sweet wheat bombs aimed at the timid.
I'm just glad we HAVE them now, and more showing up all the time. And that not all of them are sticky-sweet wheat bombs aimed at the timid.
In Beerum Veritas
-
groulxsome
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:24 pm
My understanding of the history of saison might need a little correction. Right now it goes: once upon a time farmers in the North of France, Belgium, and surrounding areas would brew a beer in the spring and leave it in the barn/farmhouse so that it would be a ready, refreshing, low-alcohol beer that could be enjoyed after long days harvesting in the fields (harvesting saison). Because of the warmer fermentation and the storage on a farm, it got some funk to it (bacteria etc.).
As the 20th century rolled on and the evil forces of beer centralization and scientific brewing took control, this scrappy little style became more and more obscure eventually only being represented commercially in Saison Dupont. With the craft beer boom in the states most brewers only had access to one Saison, Saison Dupoint, which is higher alcohol, contains no wheat, and has very little farmhouse funk. The only point of reference most people had to the style would have been Dupont, so they shot for something similar. Hence, the second biggest Saison, Hennipin, is a similar, no-wheat, higher than 5%, low-funk beer. Either that, or they just spiced up wit's and called them saisons.
Now that Saison, as a style, is pretty common and accepted style lots of craft breweries can look to older traditions (and less distributed beers) to try to make them more notably farmhouse and unique (and maybe authentic). So my "no wheat" comment comes from the tradition of saison developing from the Dupont-clone American craft scene, and not the deeper history of farmhouse brewing (which likely used all manner of things). The "no wheat" comment is also a bit of a reaction to the spiced-up wit incarnation of the Saison, which I like less than the dry, yeasty version.
That's my two bits! :p
As the 20th century rolled on and the evil forces of beer centralization and scientific brewing took control, this scrappy little style became more and more obscure eventually only being represented commercially in Saison Dupont. With the craft beer boom in the states most brewers only had access to one Saison, Saison Dupoint, which is higher alcohol, contains no wheat, and has very little farmhouse funk. The only point of reference most people had to the style would have been Dupont, so they shot for something similar. Hence, the second biggest Saison, Hennipin, is a similar, no-wheat, higher than 5%, low-funk beer. Either that, or they just spiced up wit's and called them saisons.
Now that Saison, as a style, is pretty common and accepted style lots of craft breweries can look to older traditions (and less distributed beers) to try to make them more notably farmhouse and unique (and maybe authentic). So my "no wheat" comment comes from the tradition of saison developing from the Dupont-clone American craft scene, and not the deeper history of farmhouse brewing (which likely used all manner of things). The "no wheat" comment is also a bit of a reaction to the spiced-up wit incarnation of the Saison, which I like less than the dry, yeasty version.
That's my two bits! :p
-
markaberrant
- Seasoned Drinker
- Posts: 1664
- Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:28 pm
- Location: Regina, SK
Hennepin is a fine beer, but a terrible saison. Tastes to me like they just use their house yeast with tons of banana esters, making it more like a belgian blond/light tripel.
I've had a few other lame saisons that were nothing but witbiers as has been mentioned.
Saison is a very loose "style," though many North Americans have decided that Saison Dupont is the only true saison.
The general "guidelines" of saison is that it must be dry (can't think of a single sweet saison). The ester/phenol profile should have restrained fruitiness with more of a peppery spice, very different from a traditional belgian yeast. Spices are more than welcome, but shouldn't be promiment (one Belgian brewer says, "if you can pick out an individual spice, you used too much."). Adjuncts such as raw wheat/spelt/oats are also welcome to the party, which can give a very dry beer some much needed creaminess/mouthfeel. Brett and sour also work well when incorporate into a saison, but again should not be over the top like a lambic or flanders ale. Hop character and bitterness can also be much higher than typical belgian ales, and are sometimes perceived as more bitter as a result of the dry finish/mineral water profile.
Grab a copy of Farmhouse Ales by Phil Markowski if you want to learn more. Or get your ass to Funkwerks in Fort Collins, CO and Jester King in Austin,TX to see what some north american saison breweries are putting out. I believe Funkwerks won Small Brewery of the Year at this year's GABF.
I've had a few other lame saisons that were nothing but witbiers as has been mentioned.
Saison is a very loose "style," though many North Americans have decided that Saison Dupont is the only true saison.
The general "guidelines" of saison is that it must be dry (can't think of a single sweet saison). The ester/phenol profile should have restrained fruitiness with more of a peppery spice, very different from a traditional belgian yeast. Spices are more than welcome, but shouldn't be promiment (one Belgian brewer says, "if you can pick out an individual spice, you used too much."). Adjuncts such as raw wheat/spelt/oats are also welcome to the party, which can give a very dry beer some much needed creaminess/mouthfeel. Brett and sour also work well when incorporate into a saison, but again should not be over the top like a lambic or flanders ale. Hop character and bitterness can also be much higher than typical belgian ales, and are sometimes perceived as more bitter as a result of the dry finish/mineral water profile.
Grab a copy of Farmhouse Ales by Phil Markowski if you want to learn more. Or get your ass to Funkwerks in Fort Collins, CO and Jester King in Austin,TX to see what some north american saison breweries are putting out. I believe Funkwerks won Small Brewery of the Year at this year's GABF.
-
JeffPorter
- Beer Superstar
- Posts: 2552
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:39 am
- Location: Brampton, ON
RPA with dinner
and one of two bottles of GLB Bourbon Barrel Porter - maybe something (good) has happened in the bottles, but I don't remember it being THIS delicious when it was on tap over the Spring/Summer. Lots of bourbon and vanilla in the nose and on the tongue. And coffee and chocolate.
Is it possible that some of those bars only had the regular version when they said they had the barrel aged?
Also, I'm drinking it a lot warmer than it was served on tap.
and one of two bottles of GLB Bourbon Barrel Porter - maybe something (good) has happened in the bottles, but I don't remember it being THIS delicious when it was on tap over the Spring/Summer. Lots of bourbon and vanilla in the nose and on the tongue. And coffee and chocolate.
Is it possible that some of those bars only had the regular version when they said they had the barrel aged?
Also, I'm drinking it a lot warmer than it was served on tap.
"What can you say about Pabst Blue Ribbon that Dennis Hopper hasn’t screamed in the middle of an ether binge?" - Jordan St. John
It's definitely more estery than phenolic. I like that, but 'authenticity' is questionable. It certainly borders on the other styles.markaberrant wrote:Hennepin is a fine beer, but a terrible saison. Tastes to me like they just use their house yeast with tons of banana esters, making it more like a belgian blond/light tripel.
On the other hand, the historic Belgian farmhouse brewers probably used their house yeast as well.
Here's a snapshot from America a decade ago (mostly based on those 2 examples?):
http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/ ... replicator
The fruity esters tend to be more subtle now (there are more yeast varieties available).The Saison style is typically a fruity, hoppy, moderately-strong and refreshing ale. Hennepin is a complex beer with an initial malt sweetness followed by a dry finish. The color is light and the beer has excellent foam retention. A secret blend of spices helps to give it a unique flavor. Randy did admit to using ginger root in this beer, since that is a pronounced flavor when Hennepin is young.
I'd love to see someone like Ron Pattinson dig into brewers archives and find gravities, acidities, etc...
-
JeffPorter
- Beer Superstar
- Posts: 2552
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:39 am
- Location: Brampton, ON
Flying Monkeys BNL Imp. Chocolate Stout
Way better than ST Choklat. Not nearly as cloying, but the chocolate character is huge, so still not sure how much of this I'll be able to drink in one sitting. A little thinner than some impy stouts but that improves drinkability a bit. Good but not fantastic. Would like to see FM bottle the likes of their Beer Geeks Stout and Pre-Divinity from the tap takeover - those were some world class Imps.
Way better than ST Choklat. Not nearly as cloying, but the chocolate character is huge, so still not sure how much of this I'll be able to drink in one sitting. A little thinner than some impy stouts but that improves drinkability a bit. Good but not fantastic. Would like to see FM bottle the likes of their Beer Geeks Stout and Pre-Divinity from the tap takeover - those were some world class Imps.
A shark on whisky is mighty risky. A shark on beer is a beer engineer.
