Southern Tier price point

Jon Walker · Post by **Jon Walker** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:56 am

crawler wrote:bujubanton's ghetto posts and classless attacks have pretty much entered my "non-reputable member, waste of time, don't bother to read" category.

Many forums elsewhere include an "ignore user" option. I've asked Greg if we can get that feature added here. I've given up trying to logically or sensibly reply to the guy's posts so I'd really like to be able to just have them not appear at all.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:28 pm

some of these posts make "rabbit" look rather sophisticzted...let's get back to beer and stop all of this crap. We will always correct those of you who know nothing about the LCBO and it's machinations but let's stop all the personal attacks...we're all asshole, dickshit weirdos otherwise we wouldn't be on this site...live with it...my wife does!

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:35 pm

esprit wrote:some of these posts make "rabbit" look rather sophisticzted..!

Well let's not be silly... Rabbit throwing a big party with free Rochefort beer would make him look sophisticated.

Points if we can all wear bunny ears provided by hosts.

esprit · Post by **esprit** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:55 pm

Done...pick a date...all must be attired in party dressses with no undergarments...I'll supply the beer...you supply the pubic hairs.

Bobsy · Post by **Bobsy** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:17 pm

esprit wrote:Done...pick a date...all must be attired in party dressses with no undergarments...

Stop!

Bobsy · Post by **Bobsy** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:17 pm

Hammertime.

Illuminatus · Post by **Illuminatus** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:20 pm

I dunno...free beer might be worth having to see BTers in dresses...

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:19 pm

Withdraw all claims that Rochefort could ever make Rabbit seem sophisticated...

rudolf · Post by **rudolf** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:35 pm

Jan Primus wrote:What does a sixer of this usually go for in the states? I'm guessing around $9-$10 on average...so that would have us only paying about 50% more, seems fair to me.....NOT!

I believe its typically $7 for a 6 pack, $13 for the 12 packs at supermarkets here in Buffalo.

-rudy

Roland + Russell · Post by **Roland + Russell** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:19 pm

Roland + Russell wrote:The original application for the ST IPA went in well over one year ago and actually came in at that price point of $14.10.

Since then there has been fluctuations in currency values and oil which have an inpact on freight charges and production costs at the brewery.

There was extra costs also incurred at the brewery level for new labels to comply with this market.

It is not unheard of for prices to be adjusted. What was and remains very important, is that ST and other US craft breweries are not discouraged by this market and its requirements.

Agents are also not always privy to the pricing administration process. We are also obligated to respect client/LCBO relationship details.

While $12.00 sounded like a real bargain, Roland + Russell believes the product is still well priced for a product of this acclaim and quality.

We sincerely hope that you will support the Southern Tier IPA as this will open the doors to bringing in some of the other fantastic brews made not just by this brewery, but by other US craft brewers.

As we mentioned earlier, the circumstances were quite complex and we outlined them above. We will not be drawn into jeopardizing the retailer/supplier relationship and the information we are privy to. However, it is important to state that it is ultimately the supplier that sets the wholesale price, in most cases Ex-Works. The LCBO sets the retail price and has set freight rates which they have negotiated. The agents can only advise the supplier as to the market conditions, their commission rate and what they think the market can sustain or accept. Ultimately, it is the producer and retailer that call the shots.

Contrary to some suggestions, the retailer in any market can make price adjustments as needed due to currency fluctuations and transportation costs beyond their control. This is something that will become more commonplace due to price increases in oil. Unfortunately, anyone that eats, drinks or flies will have to deal with this.

For the record, Roland + Russell has drastically reduced their commission in order to keep the supplier in this regulated market. Those that have dealt with us on a personal level can attest to our integrity, dedication and willingness to go the extra mile-regardless of whether the customer is ordering 1 case, 20 or 100. We have never been driven solely by the almighty dollar and never will be. We are in this business with all of its obstacles because of a sincere passion for great food and drink. Our reputation means much more to us than "the windfall" of making a few extra cents per case commission.

We are truly blessed to work with some of the finest producers. These relationships in of themselves are a true reward.

Jon Walker · Post by **Jon Walker** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:56 pm

I for one can vouch for R&R's dedication to excellent beer and superb customer service. They have indeed gone the extra mile for me personally in the several orders I've made through them and I hugely appreciate that.

As the creator of this thread my aim was actually not to suggest anything untoward but rather to gauge how people felt about the price difference. Had the LCBO not published a price of $12 and the $14.10 list price had gone up on their website I doubt any of us would have questioned it at all. However when you see a price advertised it's often jarring to find it has jumped without (at the start of this thread) any justification or explanation. Now that it has been offered I'm satisfied that it's warranted and that in future the LCBO should perhaps wait to list prices until they have been finalized.

Belgian · Post by **Belgian** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:06 pm

Roland + Russell wrote: For the record, Roland + Russell has drastically reduced their commission in order to keep the supplier in this regulated market.

We appreciate this very much. It should not be on you nice R&R folks. Please understand all of Ontario is already feeling a little raw at the moment about LCBO pricing problems esp. of all American products, given the recent surge of the Canadian Dollar. It's as if they can trade on a strong dollar but we can't.

The LCBO have not budged to make ANY of their pricing more in line with the US. Whether the consumer expectation is right or wrong, prices staying just as high (or going higher) with the current exchange rate creates the perception of very money-grabby LCBO pricing. They have no problem selling a wine for double or more what it costs in Buffalo. People see it and it just looks quite bad.

This is mere rhetoric of discussion rather than definitive argument, however we can see why people here get impatient with pricing - it is a sticky issue and the LC frequently tends to make itself look unsympathetic to consumer perceptions and wishes.

Let us just concede that 1) Southern Tier IPA is probably well worth what it costs (by local price standards) and 2) the LC does *not* pre-guarantee prices - even if they do print them in a little color brochure beforehand and have to wear egg on their face. Who knows, one might even grab a few cases before stores get the prices right. Show the booklet if it doesn't scan at the checkout.

bujubanton · Post by **bujubanton** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:56 pm

I hope you have your ignore user function implemented Jon Walker so you don't have to have your day sullied with my post (once again..you can attack me...but if I respond...I am the bad guy...a regular Tony Montana of this thread...ha ha....). (hello pot...this is the kettle...)

Good point though...LCBO should not be putting prices in its booklet...if world events are suddenly going to overtake, resulting in a 17% price hike...before it's even on the shelves. I am thinking of writing a letter, suggesting they bump the price to $16 per six pack..

Not sure if oil prices are really a factor in the 280km between Southern Tier and downtown Toronto...but maybe that's information we are not "privy" to knowing...

Look...I am tired of all the back and forth on this too...but there seems to be a bit of Stockholm syndrome here with some posters and the way customers are treated by the state liquor monopoly.
This is just beer.
The endless excuses are really getting lame, to get a product onto the shelves.
And after teasing us with the notion of getting good beer...that we can all enjoy...it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to learn there's going to be an immediate price hike..substantial one at that...
I just bet there weren't the same hoops for the 200 pilseners they sell.

My suggestion, is to call the LCBO and ask why they are charging 17% more.
If there are additional costs...they should eat that amount, instead of us...
No one forced them to put $12 in the booklet.

JerCraigs · Post by **JerCraigs** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:44 am

bujubanton wrote: My suggestion, is to call the LCBO and ask why they are charging 17% more.
If there are additional costs...they should eat that amount, instead of us...
No one forced them to put $12 in the booklet.

Why? Being the 'frugal' so-and-so that I am I am not one to praise price increases in my beer, however:
- At any other store in the US, the beer would show up and there'd be a price sticker on it. Most customers would not know the 'planned' prices, so the price is the price.
- It is pretty common place in most other industries for prices to change from 'pre-release' estimates to the actual retail floor.

The lesson I guess is that they should reconsider publishing prices far in advance of receiving product, but it is neither a contract nor a binding quote. The LCBOs flaws may be many, but I think suggesting that a retailer suck it up and take a greater than 10% reduced margin on a product , regardless of the retailer or the product, is a good recipe to ensure that they will no longer sell it in future. OR they could simply take the legalese approach and put "prices subject to change" on printed materials in future.

j0eb0nd7 · Post by **j0eb0nd7** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:10 pm

Supply and demand my friends. Whatever the price may be, decide for yourself if it is worth paying and then exercise your right to choose where to spend your money.

Some great Ontario micro-brewed alternatives chock full of hoppy goodness include:

Millstreet Tankhouse Ale
County Durham Signature Ale
Wellington Arkell Best Bitter
Route 666 Pale Ale
Scotch-Irish Sgt Major's IPA

Mmmmmmm!!