LCBO strike

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tuqueboy
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Postby tuqueboy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:48 am

mjohnston wrote:I don't understand how picketers are allowed to block traffic and impede peoples' movements. ... If anything, the only thing it achieves is to make people angry and create the risk of violent confrontation.


and thereby increasing pressure to end the strike. which is exactly why pickets are done. there's also the concept of the informational picket, which i think is always a much better idea.
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:48 am

tuqueboy wrote:
mjohnston wrote:I don't understand how picketers are allowed to block traffic and impede peoples' movements. ... If anything, the only thing it achieves is to make people angry and create the risk of violent confrontation.


and thereby increasing pressure to end the strike. which is exactly why pickets are done. there's also the concept of the informational picket, which i think is always a much better idea.



And we have tese throughout the year as well, but there will be info pickets too.
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Postby kwjd » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:50 am

JerCraigs wrote:Honestly, if the LCBO expects to provide us with staff that have some idea what they are talking about, and retain the magical power of denying sales to minors that apparently only those employees have then having more people that are full time is likely a good way to do that. If none of the above is actually important and a temp staff with (likely) high turnover is enough, then why do we need the LCBO in the first place?


There is no need for the Liquor Control Board. It is a relic of the prohibition era and we need it about as much as we need an Electronics Control Board to sell us DVD players.

This is exactly the kind of stuff their union *should* be fighting for on behalf of the staff. I happen to personally think (as an outsider looking in) that striking is an exceptionally bad way to do it given the lost wages etc. for the staff. We shall see.


I agree the union should be fighting for this. That being said, the bargaining power of the union is artifically inflated because the LCBO is a monopoly. I am not going to say what other people should be paid and if there should be more part time vs full time employees, because I really don't know, but people should be upset when the LCBO goes on strike. Without the LCBO open, we are in a quasi prohibition in Ontario.
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Postby mjohnston » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:57 am

and thereby increasing pressure to end the strike. which is exactly why pickets are done.


I don't debate that it's effective, in the same way that stealing a baby's lollipop is an effective way to acquire a lollipop. I just don't know why it's permitted. :)
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Postby Belgian » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:09 am

mjohnston wrote:I don't understand how picketers are allowed to block traffic and impede peoples' movements. IMHO, anyone who does that should be arrested and charged; it has nothing to do with the grievances they have with their employer. If anything, the only thing it achieves is to make people angry and create the risk of violent confrontation.


Idiotic. Polce overtime costs paid out of taxes our pockets, just to patrol & manage the picket.

Cayenne spray or mace - which is less cruel for the first idiot who so much as even touches me when I try to walk in a store? Any and all physical contact = assault.

kwjd wrote:I agree the union should be fighting for this. That being said, the bargaining power of the union is artifically inflated because the LCBO is a monopoly..........people should be upset when the LCBO goes on strike. Without the LCBO open, we are in a quasi prohibition in Ontario.

Good point, the LCBO are like an essential retail service because they are THE ONLY retail of its kind here and are solely relied upon by many other parts of the economy!! They can't just go and f*ck with all the consumers and sellers in Ontario as a bargaining position, unless they are willing to give up all the consumers in Ontario, permanently. In the latter case it's completely fair for them to bargain & to lose it all with no "public reliance" safety net.

Otherwise this strike demonstrably proves the contempt which our public intstitutions have always had for the Ontario public they supposedly serve. It's exposed. People now see it and it rouses the kind of public objection that is rarely felt. Rarely do we get a fair shot at pulling them down via exposure in the media, and you know what, I still bet you they are too afraid to piss of the public because of this very real possibility.
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:36 am

I think some of you guys are going a little overboard. WHo said we'd be poreventing people from going into stores? Not I. Not OPSEU.
Fact is, stores will still be open, run by managers, and we will be allowing people into those stores. Its not their fight, so they shouldn't be harassed as a result. We will allow every single person, who wants to gain entry to the stores, to do so.
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Postby $ » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:47 am

If I worked at the LCBO I would want a strike...to help bring in a private system.

Obviously the LCBO pays enough, otherwise they wouldn't find workers.

The problem here are the citizens of Ontario accepting a monopoly on liquor sales. Until people recognize that the government has no moral right to impose a monopoly on anything, nothing will change.

People feel the government should collect garbage for example. They feel it is morally right for the government to do so. They justify this with nonsense examples of , what about the poor and their garbage. What about the earth , someone needs to protect it from garbage. It's not possible the free market, as in , my fellow citizens, could possibly address these concerns, we need an authority, government, which is apparently made up of superhumans and not made up by my fellow citizens,

Until you recognize that it is immoral to have any forced government service, nothing will change. Even if the LCBO does get privatized, if you don't recognize morally why it is wrong to have the LCBO, one day ten years later, some clever talker can come by and convince you that we need a new liquor monopoly in the name of X.

Government forced services are wrong because they take my money from me without my consent. Government mandated monopolies are wrong because it limits me from my right to pursue my economic life in the same area.
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Postby mjohnston » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:57 am

Steelbackguy, you're right, nothing like that has happened yet. It's just something that happens with strikes sometimes. For example, picketers are blocking access to transfer stations during the garbage strike.
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:03 am

mjohnston wrote:Steelbackguy, you're right, nothing like that has happened yet. It's just something that happens with strikes sometimes. For example, picketers are blocking access to transfer stations during the garbage strike.


Yeah, well that isn't right.

Obviously you're going to get some bad apples in every bunch, but we've been told to let people by the lines and that is what we will do. Not that supplies will last long. The unionized truckers who deliver to the stores won't dare cross those lines. So you'll have about 3-4 days worth of stuff in the stores before everything dries up.
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Postby velovampire » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:46 am

SteelbackGuy wrote:...Not that supplies will last long. The unionized truckers who deliver to the stores won't dare cross those lines. So you'll have about 3-4 days worth of stuff in the stores before everything dries up.
I can picture it now: shelves utterly bare, a few stray broken bottles dripping sour liquid onto the floor, and in the distance, one shelf, noticeable only because of its complete difference to all the others. Yes, this shelf is full! Behold, 1000 gleaming bottles of Chapeau Exotic...
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Postby icemachine » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:00 am

Well I stocked up yesterday to beet the rush, wanted to get hold of some new ST IPA (not in stock yet), and some of the summer seasonals. Restocked the liqour cabinet too since supplies were getting low their too. I'll be fine for a few weeks, and if it its a long strike, I can always take one of these mandatory Fridays off and head to Quebec or Buffalo for the day
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Postby Bobbyok » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:06 am

SteelbackGuy wrote:Agreed. It certainly is a silly time, but we now belong to OPSEU and as such, we have to play by their rules now. They have called the strike deadline. It is unfortunate that is coincides with others that are on strike at this time.

Um, isn't a union supposed to represent the interests of its members, not the other way around? That's mostly rhetorical, but I am a bit curious about what your answer would be.
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:10 am

Bobbyok wrote:
SteelbackGuy wrote:Agreed. It certainly is a silly time, but we now belong to OPSEU and as such, we have to play by their rules now. They have called the strike deadline. It is unfortunate that is coincides with others that are on strike at this time.

Um, isn't a union supposed to represent the interests of its members, not the other way around? That's mostly rhetorical, but I am a bit curious about what your answer would be.


Well, the union is the one who creates the strike deadline, as mandated by the workers. We voted 93% in favour, which gives OPSEU the right to set the deadline. As a collective, we don't set the date, just give the mandate. If it conincides with other strikes, it is purely that. A coincidence.
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Postby Bobbyok » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:58 am

SteelbackGuy wrote:
Bobbyok wrote:
SteelbackGuy wrote:Agreed. It certainly is a silly time, but we now belong to OPSEU and as such, we have to play by their rules now. They have called the strike deadline. It is unfortunate that is coincides with others that are on strike at this time.

Um, isn't a union supposed to represent the interests of its members, not the other way around? That's mostly rhetorical, but I am a bit curious about what your answer would be.


Well, the union is the one who creates the strike deadline, as mandated by the workers. We voted 93% in favour, which gives OPSEU the right to set the deadline. As a collective, we don't set the date, just give the mandate. If it conincides with other strikes, it is purely that. A coincidence.

Coincidence or not, you've also said this:

Let me be the first to say that a very large majority of LCBO staffers DO NOT want a strike.


So most members of the union don't want a strike, but voted in favour of one anyway (likely at the behest of the union), so members are now at the mercy of the union? Isn't that a clear case of the union working against the wishes of its members?
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Postby kwjd » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:29 pm

At lunch break today I attempted to buy some reserves at the Queen's Quay LCBO. I say "attempted" because I walked in and the line was curving up and down aisles and I thought it could be hours before I actually made a purchase. Out of curiosity I took a look at the back section with the beer and the shelves were thinning out.

Long lines and empty shelves... don't you love how a government monopoly can turn us into the Soviet Union?

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