Boycotting the LCBO-BS 2010

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kwjd
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Postby kwjd » Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:55 pm

viggo wrote:
$ wrote:
Bobsy wrote:
$ wrote:For sure, like I said, I will most likely be dropping into the LCBO every other month to maybe buy some new seasonals, maybe a few good beers.


So in what way is this a boycott?



because every other month I won't be buying anything at the lcbo-bs

I'm not sure bimonthly-boycott is as sexy a word


I'm sure it's really going to impact their bottom line! Like others, I'm not sure I understand the point of this.


The problem is they have no bottom line to maintain. The LCBO cannot go out of business because it is government run. The only way to get rid of them is to change the authoritarian alcohol laws in Ontario.
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SteelbackGuy
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:26 pm

I can understand the statement that is being raised by this "boycott". The author doesn't like the system and he wants things to change. The boycott will very likely have almost no impact on the LCBO bottom line, nor will it actually change anything. But thats fine. There is some personal satisfaction that one gets from these type of boycotts.

For example, I boycott Tim Hortons, and have done so, for years. I'll likely never spend a dime there again. Shitty business practices, shitty coffee, shitty food, paying shit wages while making record profits, increasing prices to consumers while making record profits, and making commercials that are geared to the lowest common denominator. And those are just a few reasons. I can go on and on. So I don't spend a dime on those assholes.

I realize my personal boycott has no impact on the business Tim Horton's does. But at the end of the year, a coffee a day adds up to around $500-600. Thats $500-600 they'll never get from me. Like I said, no impact, but somehow self satisfying. Plus, I can revel in the fact that the general population is somehow satisfied by watered down, flavourless coffee, much like they are my coors light. So, Tim Horton's = Coors light and mediocrity. I'm not interested. If I was, I'd be uy a light lime beer every weekend!

Anyway, its such silly thing , these boycotts, but at the very least they satisfy the soul. Good luck with your boycott.
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TJ
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Postby TJ » Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:21 pm

viggo wrote:I'm sure it's really going to impact their bottom line! Like others, I'm not sure I understand the point of this.


The point of boycotts and protests is to raise awareness that will one day lead to change, not solve the problem on the spot.

I'm guessing the OP doesn't think this boycott will financially cripple the LCBO and The Beer Store thereby bringing about change in alcohol distribution in this province any more than Tamil protesters thought that blocking off the Gardiner would end civil war in Sri Lanka. I'm guessing the point of starting the Facebook group might at least be to get the ball rolling and get people asking questions.

From my point of view I think it'd be better to focus this energy in other ways, but I'd never dissuade or discourage anyone from fighting the system as they see fit. Even if it's only a partial boycott that I don't quite understand, I wouldn't stop anyone from doing it. I'm surprised to see so many people against this.

So yeah, down with the LCBO and Beer Store!*

*Some restrictions apply.
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Belgian
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Postby Belgian » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:30 pm

"Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it."

- Mahatma Gandhi

Not a huge Gandhi fan, but the point is by not adopting a defeatist acceptance of "how things just are" he has shown things can be different That's exactly the point. We are never helpless unless we give in to the loud pervasive message that we are.
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mintjellie
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Postby mintjellie » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:47 pm

it's not what you say, it's how you say it. you come across as defensive. self-important. arrogant. you make ad hominem attacks on anyone who dares to disagree with your good fight and how you choose to fight it. you put words in other peoples mouths, and make wild assumptions about what other people are thinking (like you just did with me now).

$ wrote:
mintjellie wrote:What a douchebag.


wow, I'm a douchebag for not selling my beer to someone who won't go get their own?
or because I made fun on Ontario?
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SteelbackGuy
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Postby SteelbackGuy » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:56 pm

mintjellie wrote:it's not what you say, it's how you say it. you come across as defensive. self-important. arrogant. you make ad hominem attacks on anyone who dares to disagree with your good fight and how you choose to fight it. you put words in other peoples mouths, and make wild assumptions about what other people are thinking (like you just did with me now).

$ wrote:
mintjellie wrote:What a douchebag.


wow, I'm a douchebag for not selling my beer to someone who won't go get their own?
or because I made fun on Ontario?



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Belgian
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Postby Belgian » Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:37 pm

Steelback, please do not start using gaudy url'd images for emphasis, my fragile eyes beg you!
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toweringpine
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Postby toweringpine » Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:48 pm

I too think this will be a futile effort but I still appluad anyone who takes a (peaceful) stand against a system they believe needs an overhaul.

$, I am glad you are spreading the word about doing here and on Facebook. Lots of people have personal boycotts on all sorts of places but if the message behind it isn't well communicated there isn't much point other than personal satisfaction.
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Ale's What Cures Ya
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Postby Ale's What Cures Ya » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:39 pm

toweringpine wrote:I too think this will be a futile effort but I still appluad anyone who takes a (peaceful) stand against a system they believe needs an overhaul.


Pfft, how many times has peace been useful in doing away with an oppressive regime?
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Postby Matty D » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:22 am

kwjd wrote:
Matty D wrote:You need to be carefull what you wish for. You push to have private beer sales and you may end up with less selection then more. You might only get the big sellers as retailers may not be able to afford the risk of carrying the craft brews.


This really doesn't seem likely. The risk of carrying craft beers is much less for a private store because they don't have to do these massive releases that the LCBO does. They can order a beer once and if it doesn't sell, they can just not order it again. There is a reason I can get a better selection in Lethbridge, Alberta than in all the LCBO's/TBS's combined.

If we were allowed private beer sales in Toronto and no one else had a store that sold craft beer, I can promise you that I will open up a store and do this myself. There are probably 20-30 cities in Ontario with a population greater than Lethbridge... pretty sure we can get some quality beers accross this province.

I know I just gave anecdotal evidence, but the Montreal Economic Institute has actual research on this from 2005 (it is based on all alcohol):

"Number of stores: The number of stores per 100,000 inhabitants is five times higher in Alberta (42.1) than in Ontario (7.7) and three times higher than Quebec (12.8). Even in absolute numbers, Alberta (1,087 stores) beats out Ontario (779) and Quebec (801).

Availability of products: Examining the number of products available on the provincial market, Quebec (7,148 products) does better than Ontario (3,449) but Alberta, with its liberalized market, offers consumers many more products (11,575) than the SAQ or LCBO."

http://www.iedm.org/main/show_mediarele ... ases_id=88


Well that is very encouraging to see and frankly a bit surprising. However I still have a nagging feeling about this. I think it a matter of geography. I think that yes there may very well be an influx of specialty beers available at more sources. However they will be centralised around urban centres. I have always lived in or just outside of small towns i.e. 2500 - 7000. Also I'm thinking about cottage country as well where the local LCBO is a trailer.

What I fear is that these towns will see a decline in the fringe beers and only a select few will have stores that carry micros. So your availability goes up by capita but becomes more centralised. This is of course based on my opinion and not stats or research. I have no time to research, I'm to busy arguing on the internet for that! :wink:

However if it works in Alberta I would imagine it isn't to centralised?
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Postby GregClow » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:03 am

$ wrote:I will most likely be dropping into the LCBO every other month to maybe buy some new seasonals, maybe a few good beers.


But won't that make you "feel a bit guilty about choosing convenience over what is right"?

:roll:
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Jon Walker
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Postby Jon Walker » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:12 pm

It's amusing that so many people (myself included) have given this thread serious attention and replies. It's also interesting how the arguements seem generally polarized between "this idea of a boycott sucks" to "hey, any protest is good protest".

People are free to express their indignation to something in a pretty wide array of ways...however, it will remain perfectly logical to assume that, for example, banging one's head against the wall, while on some level personally cathartic, is ultimately foolish and unproductive. I remain of the opinion that there are BETTER ways to change the system. Since some folks can't be bothered to read the myriad of threads about this in the Bartowel archives here's a short list:
1) Buy up as much of the GOOD beer the LCBO brings in and, collectively, convince them that there is a demand for better quality. This has already proven effective. I'd argue that our collective and rapid buy out of DFH 60 minute a couple of years back illustrated to the LCBO that hoppy west coast style beers had a market here. Now there are several and on the general list at that.
2) Buy your beer directly from the brewer. If you support good brewers they can make a living and keep producing good beer. If you did this exclusively, and convinced others with your Facebook enthusiasm to do the same, you would be doing more to affect the LCBO both directly and indirectly. More successful local brewers have deeper pockets to make one off seasonals, buy shelf space at the BS, market their beers to the LCBO for seasonal and regular list inclusion, all backed by the solid sales figures that make the beer reps take notice.
3) Lobby the LCBO to expand certain categories or to allow specialized stores for small batch beer importation.
4) Lobby your M.P. to allow two-tiered liquor and beer sales in the province. While you're at it encourage them to break up the macro strangle hold on the BS and keg importation.


All these are better ideas than the "old chestnut" that started this thread. Hey, bang the drum on Facebook for a boycott (or a bi-monthly boycott...how silly is that?) but I promise you it will be a lot of effort for zero impact. But, as I said before, whatever floats your boat.

Now, back to my Molson Ultra.
I don't always piss in a bottle but when I do...I prefer to call it Dos Equis.
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Postby Bytowner » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:51 pm

Good post Jon. Couldn't agree more.
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Postby $ » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:31 pm

You guys are cracking me up.

I think a couple of you might want to take a break from alcohol. This is one of the most grumpy forums I have ever been on. Even arguing politics and religion has gotten me more polite responses.

GregClow wrote:But won't that make you "feel a bit guilty about choosing convenience over what is right"?

It does!!
Jon Walker wrote:It's amusing that so many people (myself included) have given this thread serious attention and replies.


It is! considering it's all meant to be fun and "tongue-in-cheekish". I mean come on, I've got a picture of the lcbo and beer store logos blowing up and being nuked...

Jon Walker wrote:bi-monthly boycott...how silly is that?) but I promise you it will be a lot of effort for zero impact. But, as I said before, whatever floats your boat.


That is correct, it is my silly boat to float.
and no, it's not a lot of effort at all, I've already been pretty much doing it for the last 6 months.

Jon Walker wrote:Since some folks can't be bothered to read the myriad of threads about this in the Bartowel archives


(wow... oh well...)
no really? people have discussed this before here!?!? no way seriously??! you must be joking. I'd never read a single thing here before my post. I better get down to some serious research.


mintjellie wrote:it's not what you say, it's how you say it. you come across as defensive. self-important. arrogant. you make ad hominem attacks on anyone who dares to disagree with your good fight and how you choose to fight it. you put words in other peoples mouths, and make wild assumptions about what other people are thinking (like you just did with me now).


Is this even worth replying too? Honestly I am much too important to bother, however...
I have to assume your reply is a joke, and it did make me laugh, but if it isn't then I am a little sad.
"Defensive"? as in responding to attacks or questions?(like what I'm doing right now?)
"Self-Important"? well, it is the most amazing boycott in the history of mankind
"ad hominem attacks" - uh, no

"put words in other people's mouths" - again, no
"and your mother sucks eggs" - that is too low I can't believe you'd say that

"Wild assumptions" - as in when I asked why you insulted me and gave a couple of possible options? What a crime!

I can't even assign a shitty beer to you!
Well, ok, go finish your case of... Keystone Ice! http://www.ratebeer.com/Brewers/Beer/Beer-Reviews-2334.htm
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Jon Walker
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Postby Jon Walker » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:39 pm

ImageImage
Spot the difference.
I don't always piss in a bottle but when I do...I prefer to call it Dos Equis.

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