Top 10 beers brewed in Ontario by ratebeer average

[Bobsy]

I don't know about ratebeer, but Ten Bitter Years made it on to BA's top 25 Canadian beers today.

[Belgian]

I see the same people at beer events often dissing those events without doing anything to help spread the good word. People ask me what I've got that's new, and my reply is how many new customers have you got for me???
[...]
So if you want to see us make more interesting one-offs & specialty beers start supporting our regular beers and beer events. Those help us pay the bills and craft brewing is very expensive.

A bit of a backwards approach, no? I'm not going to rabidly proselytize to my friends "you HAVE to try Black Oak's Pale Ale - It's amazing!!!!", but you can be sure that I will do (and have done) so with 10BY and your fantastic seasonals. You want me to bring you customers? Then bring me something new/different than what is currently available in this market.

Many things ring true here:
- would be great if more people could know about and drink Black Oak stuff (but who else can I tell, and if they are not interested, what can I do?)
- Black Oak's 2 flagship products, the Nut Brown and Pale Ale, are solid any day but not brands to rave about. (and I've been saying for years "I bet Black Oak could make a killer IPA! There is obvious potential to branch out.)
- 10 Bitter Years might, arguably face a drop in demand if it became a regular product (so the first batch sell-out becomes a moot point.)
- The brewery does face risks and challenges many of us are not fit to judge. So I respect everything Ken says as far as what he wants to do, as well as a regular human being doing what he can.

Just a thought not directed at any one brewery or person:

Somebody very wise in business told me your only limits in life success are the story you have in your head that you tell yourself... who you are and what your situation is and what can be accomplished, etc. Changing your "story" produces different results. Which is really hard when all your peers are constantly surrounding you with their own self-limiting beliefs and their negative "stories." Certainly I'm no better example, I can only struggle and try to learn from people who are successful.

I can think of at least one Ontario brewer that appears to have success mainly based on an unlimited belief in its ability to make wildly varied beers. This gets consistent LCBO listings in spite of brewing faults and bottle infections. I mean that is an extreme example of your "story" creating your reality, but you see where sheer belief can get you. Imagine doing the same thing, breaking those boundaries but with exceptional-looking and incredible-tasting products that would be even more successful. Making that inevitable success one's 'story.'

For what it's worth.

[Weebay]

I'm with Bobsy on this one.

I drag my friends out to Volo, C'est What, and Beer Bistro when I can. I try to get them interested in craft beers, and let them know there are things they can drink other than Hogarden and Corona.

I think a lot of the blame falls on way the province handles liquor. I watched the interview with DDC on the Business Report, and was surprised to learn that brewers could just go to a local store and if they agreed to carry their beer, they could.

I've been reading about and chasing down craft beer for about 8 months now, and to be honest, I hadn't heard about Black Oak until today.

[tuqueboy]

As others have cited, wasn't the phenomenal success of 10BY a sign that people want/are ready for something different?

No. It was a sign that the users of this forum all rushed out and bought 2 or 3 cases each of a limited release beer because they knew it was only made in small quantities. That's a damn sight different than suggesting the quick sell-out of 10BY means it would be broadly appealing to a wider market. Volo sells out Cask Days quickly; by your logic Ralph should hold it at the Rogers Centre. Look, I understand where you're coming from. I really wish Ken would make 10BY a regular offering. For what it's worth, he and Adrian say they're likely going to make it again. But is the success of a limited release beer indicative of a groundswell of change/demand in Ontario? Don't bet on it.

[matt7215]

As others have cited, wasn't the phenomenal success of 10BY a sign that people want/are ready for something different?

No. It was a sign that the users of this forum all rushed out and bought 2 or 3 cases each of a limited release beer because they knew it was only made in small quantities. That's a damn sight different than suggesting the quick sell-out of 10BY means it would be broadly appealing to a wider market. Volo sells out Cask Days quickly; by your logic Ralph should hold it at the Rogers Centre. Look, I understand where you're coming from. I really wish Ken would make 10BY a regular offering. For what it's worth, he and Adrian say they're likely going to make it again. But is the success of a limited release beer indicative of a groundswell of change/demand in Ontario? Don't bet on it.

sigh. go back and look at all the imperial stouts and IPA's that have been brought it for seasonal releases and notice that you cant buy any of them anymore because they all sold out. you cant buy 10BY anymore cause its all gone. DFH and ST IPAs sell out in the little hick town that I live in before the weekend comes. people are ready, and the first brewery to take advantage of this is going to do very well. Flying Monkeys seems to be the only ones willing to take this "risk". i hope they get run off their feet with the pending demand and get rich in the process. i will certainly be telling my friends about netherworld and smashbomb......

[tuqueboy]

sigh. go back and look at all the imperial stouts and IPA's that have been brought it for seasonal releases and notice that you cant buy any of them anymore because they all sold out. you cant buy 10BY anymore cause its all gone. DFH and ST IPAs sell out in the little hick town that I live in before the weekend comes. people are ready, and the first brewery to take advantage of this is going to do very well.

Bigger sigh. Notice your own phrase ``seasonal release.'' When something appeals a lot to a relatively small group of people, but is only available for a limited time, of course that group of people is going to snap it up for fear of not seeing it again any time soon. Do you really know how much of the DFH and ST is showing up in that little hick town? It could be 10 people buying a sixer or two of each.
One recent example of the scarcity syndrome I mention is the Ola Dubh 40. The first load of 30 cases sold almost instantly. Once the LCBO brought in another order of 100 cases, it sold a helluva lot slower (there are still stacks and stacks of it at Queen's Quay store). Look, I hope you're right. I really wish there'd be more of an appetite for bolder beers in this province. But I don't see the evidence as being quite as persuasive as you do.

[matt7215]

sigh. go back and look at all the imperial stouts and IPA's that have been brought it for seasonal releases and notice that you cant buy any of them anymore because they all sold out. you cant buy 10BY anymore cause its all gone. DFH and ST IPAs sell out in the little hick town that I live in before the weekend comes. people are ready, and the first brewery to take advantage of this is going to do very well.

Bigger sigh. Notice your own phrase ``seasonal release.'' When something appeals a lot to a relatively small group of people, but is only available for a limited time, of course that group of people is going to snap it up for fear of not seeing it again any time soon. Do you really know how much of the DFH and ST is showing up in that little hick town? It could be 10 people buying a sixer or two of each.
One recent example of the scarcity syndrome I mention is the Ola Dubh 40. The first load of 30 cases sold almost instantly. Once the LCBO brought in another order of 100 cases, it sold a helluva lot slower (there are still stacks and stacks of it at Queen's Quay store). Look, I hope you're right. I really wish there'd be more of an appetite for bolder beers in this province. But I don't see the evidence as being quite as persuasive as you do.

well i guess we will have to wait because only one brewer seems to be doing anything about providing ontario with new and interesting craft beer. like i said i hope both the netherworld and smashbomb do extremely well and Flying Monkeys reap the rewards of being first to market.

[SteelbackGuy]

sigh. go back and look at all the imperial stouts and IPA's that have been brought it for seasonal releases and notice that you cant buy any of them anymore because they all sold out. you cant buy 10BY anymore cause its all gone. DFH and ST IPAs sell out in the little hick town that I live in before the weekend comes. people are ready, and the first brewery to take advantage of this is going to do very well.

Bigger sigh. Notice your own phrase ``seasonal release.'' When something appeals a lot to a relatively small group of people, but is only available for a limited time, of course that group of people is going to snap it up for fear of not seeing it again any time soon. Do you really know how much of the DFH and ST is showing up in that little hick town? It could be 10 people buying a sixer or two of each.
One recent example of the scarcity syndrome I mention is the Ola Dubh 40. The first load of 30 cases sold almost instantly. Once the LCBO brought in another order of 100 cases, it sold a helluva lot slower (there are still stacks and stacks of it at Queen's Quay store). Look, I hope you're right. I really wish there'd be more of an appetite for bolder beers in this province. But I don't see the evidence as being quite as persuasive as you do.

well i guess we will have to wait because only one brewer seems to be doing anything about providing ontario with new and interesting craft beer. like i said i hope both the netherworld and smashbomb do extremely well and Flying Monkeys reap the rewards of being first to market.

And they would deserve the success. Too many pedestrian beers brewed in this province I'm afraid.

[A]

One recent example of the scarcity syndrome I mention is the Ola Dubh 40. The first load of 30 cases sold almost instantly. Once the LCBO brought in another order of 100 cases, it sold a helluva lot slower (there are still stacks and stacks of it at Queen's Quay store). Look, I hope you're right. I really wish there'd be more of an appetite for bolder beers in this province. But I don't see the evidence as being quite as persuasive as you do.

You don't think trying to sell an $18 bottle of imperial stout in the middle of summer has anything to do with that?

[cfrancis]

The other problem is it's all at Queen's Quay. I'd love to get a bottle of it. But there is nothing in the Ottawa area and never was. If LCBO actually "distributed" the beer that they have past the Toronto/Golden Horshoe. They might sell more.

[biegaman]

One recent example of the scarcity syndrome I mention is the Ola Dubh 40. The first load of 30 cases sold almost instantly. Once the LCBO brought in another order of 100 cases, it sold a helluva lot slower (there are still stacks and stacks of it at Queen's Quay store).Look, I hope you're right. I really wish there'd be more of an appetite for bolder beers in this province. But I don't see the evidence as being quite as persuasive as you do.

I don't know that you can really use Ola Dubh 40 as a proper barometer for how much craft beer is catching on with the mainstream in Ontario. After all, we are talking about a nearly $20 beer (never mind that it's almost 10% and has an exceptionally distinguished taste). Even those curious to try new things and explore new styles will likely hesitate a purchase at that price (assuming, as someone else pointed out, they make their way to the only store in the province selling it). And even then, they're likely to save it for a special occasion that could be weeks, months, even years away.

I was anxious when it came out and I bought my one bottle of it, but given the specs listed above, that's all I bought. If it were the Ola Dubh 12 I likely would have bought 2, maybe 3 and if it were Black Oak's Ten Bitter Years I would have bought 12 or probably even 24. And, you bet your ass, gone back the next week to buy more.

I'd be willing to bet Stone Pale Ale sells much more (and faster) than Old Guardian but that's why they make less of it. Just because you can go to Buffalo right now and find 2009 (or older) bottles of Old Guardian still on the shelf doesn't mean there isn't a market for it (or that it's not profitable for the store, distributor or, much less, brewer to make and invest in it).

Our friend at Cole's in Buffalo has expressed similar frustration about keeping really distinctive, really strong beers on tap because they move so slowly and tie up the lines preventing new stuff from going up. (I think he said it took him 4 months to finally sell out a corny of Kuhnhenn Winter Wonderland.) How many pints of RIS or Barleywine can you drink in a night versus how many pale ales or hefes? Sure, the kegs move a lot slower but that's not an accurate gauge of how popular or appreciated they are.

[matt7215]

January 21st 2012:

1 - Flying Monkeys Smash Bomb Atomic IPA
2 - Denisons Weissbier
3 - Black Oak Ten Bitter Years
4 - Wellington Imperial Russian Stout
5 - Muskoka Mad Tom IPA
6 - Denisons Dunkel
7 - Spearhead Hawaiian Style Pale Ale
8 - Durham Hop Head
9 - Flying Monkeys Netherworld Cascadian Dark Ale
10 - Amsterdam Tempest Imperial Stout

[midlife crisis]

These are always very interesting. The first thing that catches my eye is there is nothing from Great Lakes, which many of us felt was Ontario's best brewery in the poll from the other thread. That seems odd.

It may be in part a "recency effect", but GL Harry Porter, for instance, would easily be within my personal top ten Ontario beers. And one of the sours, too.

[matt7215]

These are always very interesting. The first thing that catches my eye is there is nothing from Great Lakes, which many of us felt was Ontario's best brewery in the poll from the other thread. That seems odd.

It may be in part a "recency effect", but GL Harry Porter, for instance, would easily be within my personal top ten Ontario beers. And one of the sours, too.

4 of those beers are in there based on legacy ratings, Miami Weiss is currently #12

[midlife crisis]

Which ones? Welly RIS and Hop Head would be two of them, I'm guessing?