The Bar Towel

matt7215 wrote: Creemore stopped being a craft brewery as soon as it sold to Molson. It already is "just a premium brand in the Molson line up."

Did Unibroue stop being craft beer when it sold to Sleeman? Or if not then, when Sapporo bought them both?

paulv wrote:I am guessing that for Creemore the draft volume would be in the 40% range.

Then I consider that a big problem because my calculations on draught alone puts them at more than 50000 HL

Rob Creighton wrote:

Bobbyok wrote:Are your guesses production or capacity? I'd assume some would have capacity quite a bit bigger than current production for expansion?

Sold beer in 2009

Thanks for clarifying.

Bobbyok wrote:

matt7215 wrote: Creemore stopped being a craft brewery as soon as it sold to Molson. It already is "just a premium brand in the Molson line up."

Did Unibroue stop being craft beer when it sold to Sleeman? Or if not then, when Sapporo bought them both?

yes

matt7215 wrote:

Bobbyok wrote:

matt7215 wrote: Creemore stopped being a craft brewery as soon as it sold to Molson. It already is "just a premium brand in the Molson line up."

Did Unibroue stop being craft beer when it sold to Sleeman? Or if not then, when Sapporo bought them both?

yes

absolutely.

based on the US sales of Unibroue, Sapporo has to be loving the fact that Sleeman bought them before they grabbed the whole kitty.

Queef wrote:

matt7215 wrote:

Bobbyok wrote: Did Unibroue stop being craft beer when it sold to Sleeman? Or if not then, when Sapporo bought them both?

yes

absolutely.

based on the US sales of Unibroue, Sapporo has to be loving the fact that Sleeman bought them before they grabbed the whole kitty.

But how does that make them "not craft"? "Craft" is not an indicator of size, it's an indicator of quality - has the beer changed? With Unibroue, I'd say no.

Bobbyok wrote:

Queef wrote:

matt7215 wrote: yes

absolutely.

based on the US sales of Unibroue, Sapporo has to be loving the fact that Sleeman bought them before they grabbed the whole kitty.

But how does that make them "not craft"? "Craft" is not an indicator of size, it's an indicator of quality - has the beer changed? With Unibroue, I'd say no.

I personally don't drink it on enough of a regular basis to know. I wouldn't be suprised, just as I won't be suprised when Creemore goes in the tank. A craft beer/brewery is more than the recipe as far as I am concerned. It's a whole package attitude from top to bottom, and I think once the big guys buy out a brewery, it loses alot of those qualities, even if at first the product doesn't suffer. Like a great Indie band that signs to a major label, eventually like all the major label stuff, they will turn to crap.

Queef wrote:

Bobbyok wrote:

Queef wrote: absolutely.

based on the US sales of Unibroue, Sapporo has to be loving the fact that Sleeman bought them before they grabbed the whole kitty.

But how does that make them "not craft"? "Craft" is not an indicator of size, it's an indicator of quality - has the beer changed? With Unibroue, I'd say no.

I personally don't drink it on enough of a regular basis to know. I wouldn't be suprised, just as I won't be suprised when Creemore goes in the tank. A craft beer/brewery is more than the recipe as far as I am concerned. It's a whole package attitude from top to bottom, and I think once the big guys buy out a brewery, it loses alot of those qualities, even if at first the product doesn't suffer. Like a great Indie band that signs to a major label, eventually like all the major label stuff, they will turn to crap.

Initially I refrained from commenting... but...

If they're using the same facilities and ingredients, I'd say they're still craft brewers. (okay, so they 'improved' the filtering for better shelf-live).

Now if they ditched the copper kettles, pumped the water from lake ontario, brewed larger batches & cut lagering time, then they would absolutely be just another Molson product. Sadly, they would simply be another brand name that would eventually die.

Perpetual growth just isn't the right business model for a craft brewery. That's the problem with big businesses taking over. It really is a whole different attitude.

(Note: I never considered Sleeman a craft brewer. They were going after market share from day one... when only one of their brews was actually an all-malt grist!).

Derek wrote:

Queef wrote:

Bobbyok wrote: But how does that make them "not craft"? "Craft" is not an indicator of size, it's an indicator of quality - has the beer changed? With Unibroue, I'd say no.

I personally don't drink it on enough of a regular basis to know. I wouldn't be suprised, just as I won't be suprised when Creemore goes in the tank. A craft beer/brewery is more than the recipe as far as I am concerned. It's a whole package attitude from top to bottom, and I think once the big guys buy out a brewery, it loses alot of those qualities, even if at first the product doesn't suffer. Like a great Indie band that signs to a major label, eventually like all the major label stuff, they will turn to crap.

Initially I refrained from commenting... but...

If they're using the same facilities and ingredients, I'd say they're still craft brewers. (okay, so they 'improved' the filtering for better shelf-live).

Now if they ditched the copper kettles, pumped the water from lake ontario, brewed larger batches & cut lagering time, then they would absolutely be just another Molson product. Sadly, they would simply be another brand name that would eventually die.

Perpetual growth just isn't the right business model for a craft brewery. That's the problem with big businesses taking over. It really is a whole different attitude.

(Note: I never considered Sleeman a craft brewer. They were going after market share from day one... when only one of their brews was actually an all-malt grist!).

I agree with the still...but, for now.

It's inevitable. unfortunately.